TR + Secrecy ?

[Sanolya]

I've been in talks with Fryar, Guild Leader of The Relentless for a few days now and he has agreed to Anguish flag us completely. He was the one who actually approached me to "get to know me first", as he put it.

Because The Relentless raids until about 9pm pacific, they generally lose people right at 9pm. Fryar (who was on his alt Rasputyn) asked me if I was interested in raiding with them on our raid days.

Before I get into this, by September 1, everyone must:
1. Get Signets Completed For Anguish Access, you cannot be gimped into Anguish to loot a key without this quest completed.
2. Get Theatre of Blood (ToB) flagged, you can read the writeup here

Print out both walkthrus on getting keyed / flagged for both zones. If you have any questions, ask the guild or myself, we'll set you on the right path.

Anguish Signets And ToB Flag Must Be Completed By September 1st, NO EXCUSES!

On to our conversations:

[Mon Aug 14 23:33:12 2006] Rasputyn tells you, 'about half of my guild is east coast, so we lose people at 9pm pretty often'
[Mon Aug 14 23:36:44 2006] Rasputyn tells you, 'another possibilty(not saying this will happen, but we've done it before),is having joint raids before or after our normal times. And work out a deal to split loot'
[Mon Aug 14 23:37:48 2006] Rasputyn tells you, 'you guys just need Seals (for anguish) and such? They rot all the time for us'
[Mon Aug 14 23:37:54 2006] Rasputyn tells you, 'most of you have signets done?'
[Mon Aug 14 23:42:23 2006] Rasputyn tells you, 'let me talk to my officers, and see what they think. Pretty sure we can work out a deal to get you guys 20 or so Anguish keys'
[Mon Aug 14 23:42:42 2006] You told Rasputyn, 'What do you need of us though? Just curious?'
[Mon Aug 14 23:42:51 2006] Rasputyn tells you, 'that's the next question'
[Mon Aug 14 23:43:29 2006] Rasputyn tells you, 'not really, could use bodies late at night for loot farming more actually'
[Mon Aug 14 23:43:37 2006] Rasputyn tells you, 'Anguish clears for example'
[Mon Aug 14 23:43:41 2006] Rasputyn tells you, 'or Tacvi even'
[Mon Aug 14 23:43:46 2006] Rasputyn tells you, 'or DoN dragons'
[Mon Aug 14 23:44:03 2006] Rasputyn tells you, 'lots of stuff like that, half the gear rots, and we only want a couple items'
[Mon Aug 14 23:44:05 2006] Rasputyn tells you, 'like Hatred'
[Mon Aug 14 23:44:12 2006] Rasputyn tells you, 'plate legs and earring are nice for new members'
[Mon Aug 14 23:44:16 2006] Rasputyn tells you, 'but the rest is rot'
[Mon Aug 14 23:44:54 2006] Rasputyn tells you, 'hehe, Yarlir, we only need ring/aug'
[Mon Aug 14 23:45:00 2006] Rasputyn tells you, 'rest is twink fodder'
[Mon Aug 14 23:53:17 2006] Rasputyn tells you, 'not sure, it's not so much if we need people, it's more that it lets us extend our raid hours a bit, if we do joint raids with you guys for a couple hours'
[Mon Aug 14 23:54:38 2006] Rasputyn tells you, 'we're always off Sunday, and usually either Fri or Sat off as well'
[Mon Aug 14 23:56:11 2006] Rasputyn tells you, 'so basically, you guys need Anguish keys, which we can give ya np. We just need to figure out what we get from the deal'
[Mon Aug 14 23:56:37 2006] Rasputyn tells you, 'and also would need to coordinate Anguish clears a little, so you guys are around to loot keys'
[Mon Aug 14 23:57:25 2006] You told Rasputyn, 'honestly, just want enough of the guild flagged for Anguish to where we can be self-sufficient and never have to backflag in mpg trials to get keyed.'
[Mon Aug 14 23:57:41 2006] Rasputyn tells you, 'nod, 20 will be fine with Ture and lv75'
[Mon Aug 14 23:59:12 2006] You told Rasputyn, '20.....hehe....20 relentless....35-40 Secrecy'
[Mon Aug 14 23:59:23 2006] Rasputyn tells you, 'no, takes us 12 =)'
[Tue Aug 15 00:01:50 2006] Rasputyn tells you, 'lemme post something, get comments'
[Tue Aug 15 00:01:56 2006] Rasputyn tells you, 'someone may have a bright idea'
[Tue Aug 15 00:03:09 2006] Rasputyn tells you, 'could also do some PoR stuff, like the Sverag mobs I guess. They drop 335+ loot, and aren't hard at all'
[Tue Aug 15 00:04:35 2006] You told Rasputyn, 'but yah, talk it over with the officers....I'm sure we can come to an agreement somewhere. Just let me know, keep me informed and we'll hammer something out. Like I said, we could extend your raid hours well into the AM'
[Tue Aug 15 00:04:53 2006] Rasputyn tells you, 'nod, that could be a nice benefit for both our guilds'
[Tue Aug 15 00:05:52 2006] You told Rasputyn, 'once you get a proposition setup, send me an eqmail / email ( crystallized @ aol . com ), and I'll submit it to my officers as well'
[Tue Aug 15 00:06:01 2006] Rasputyn tells you, 'k, will do'
[Tue Aug 15 00:37:20 2006] Rasputyn tells you, 'you guys ToB keyed?'
[Tue Aug 15 00:37:29 2006] You told Rasputyn, 'a few of us are, not everyone.'
--- [End Transmission August 14-15, 2006] ---


The next day, I spoke with him to see if he got any response from his officers about it. The officers, he mentioned, were optimistic about it and were 100% ok with us getting Anguish keyed in exchange for help with numbers. But they wanted to know what was in it for them, so that is what we spoke about last night. To my question about who gets flagged for Anguish first:

[Tue Aug 15 21:12:49 2006] Fryar tells you, 'like I said, initially it will be whoever you have that's online, and has signets done (when we have keys rotting)'
[Tue Aug 15 21:13:18 2006] Fryar tells you, 'we're very likely do have keys rotting before yer normal raid time'
[Tue Aug 15 21:14:03 2006] Fryar tells you, 'but if we start in Anguish at 5pm, at 5:30 we have a key rotting, and at 6-6:30 another'
[Tue Aug 15 21:14:30 2006] Fryar tells you, 'prolly can't give you guys (2.0) Orbs, at least not right away'
[Tue Aug 15 21:14:49 2006] Fryar tells you, 'sometimes we start Anguish at 8pm or so, after big targets'
[Tue Aug 15 21:14:54 2006] Fryar tells you, 'so those nights will work better'
[Tue Aug 15 21:17:01 2006] Fryar tells you, 'and we still need to sort out the exchange portion also'
[Tue Aug 15 23:46:44 2006] Rasputyn tells you, 'well, remember, even if all 5 (anguish) keys go to you guys, it's 5 a week'
[Tue Aug 15 23:46:55 2006] Rasputyn tells you, 'so make sure they understand it won't happen tomorrow =)'
[Tue Aug 15 23:49:38 2006] Rasputyn tells you, 'and like I said, let's get you guys some keys first, then see where we're at'
[Tue Aug 15 23:48:21 2006] You told Rasputyn, 'but, whenever you want to start this, we're ready. Just tell me what zones you are thinking of raiding with us, so we can get prepared.'
[Tue Aug 15 23:49:26 2006] Rasputyn tells you, 'it varies a lot'
[Tue Aug 15 23:50:03 2006] Rasputyn tells you, 'joint raids are something I'm interested in, but it's a whole different magnitude of arranging'
[Tue Aug 15 23:50:25 2006] Rasputyn tells you, 'keys at least are relatively easy'
[Tue Aug 15 23:53:02 2006] You told Rasputyn, 'I know the guild is highly interested in 2.0 orbs (obviously)....whatever you give us if a gift really, so if you want them to rot even if we're there, it's your rules, we won't think twice. I just want to prepare the guild to see rotting 300hp loots or 2.0 orbs with no chance to loot if that becomes the case. You get people that think "Hey, it's rotting, not even alts are grabbing it, why can't I get it", and I need to change their perception. We're in there because Relentless got us'
[Tue Aug 15 23:53:16 2006] You told Rasputyn, 'there, so, whatever drops is Relentless property. Some people just don't understand that'
[Tue Aug 15 23:54:34 2006] You told Rasputyn, 'I mean, when we farmed time, we didn't flag apps because "they didn't deserve it until they prove to us they should deserve it"....I know a few apps who were bent about that, just don't want to see our members doing the same, there are a few here I know will think that way and I want to change that before we get involved.'
[Tue Aug 15 23:54:34 2006] Rasputyn tells you, 'nod, keys are easy like I said. 2.0 orbs and such, people start to ask exactly what we're getting out of the deal and such. And since it's something we have only speculated about, it makes it harder'
[Tue Aug 15 23:58:30 2006] Rasputyn tells you, 'any loot mobs you guys do that have rot items regularly? I know you said Hatred plate legs/Ear are high demand, which is one thing we'd be interested in. Txevu BiC pieces would be another'
[Tue Aug 15 23:58:56 2006] Rasputyn tells you, 'nod, I'm guessing Sverag/ToB is what will end up happening'
[Tue Aug 15 23:59:14 2006] Rasputyn tells you, 'with you guys providing 2 groups or so usually'
[Tue Aug 15 23:59:29 2006] You told Rasputyn, 'hmm'
[Tue Aug 15 23:59:39 2006] Rasputyn tells you, 'actually,open zones, both of those'
[Tue Aug 15 23:59:45 2006] Rasputyn tells you, 'I keep thinking 54'
[Tue Aug 15 23:59:50 2006] Rasputyn tells you, 'but neither is instanced'
[Wed Aug 16 00:00:10 2006] You told Rasputyn, 'Ok, yah...was thinking...hmm, how are we going to work that if I have half the guild helping and half the guild wishing they were there doing nothing'
[Wed Aug 16 00:00:57 2006] You told Rasputyn, 'Well, we've got about 12-15 people in guild who are at Step2 of BiC, and we're farming at least peices up to Cynosure. If you got us to Txevu, then we'd be your bitch for BiC peices in Txevu '
[Wed Aug 16 00:01:19 2006] Rasputyn tells you, 'hmm'
[Wed Aug 16 00:01:28 2006] Rasputyn tells you, 'now that's something that will interest some people =)'
[Wed Aug 16 00:02:04 2006] You told Rasputyn, 'If you want to raid Txevu, then the BiC peices are yours, no questions asked. I mean, the way I look at it is this....we wouldn't be there without you, so you should get first dibs on what we kill there.'
[Wed Aug 16 00:02:39 2006] You told Rasputyn, 'we're really there just for loot, getting geared, making targets easier.'
[Wed Aug 16 00:02:41 2006] Rasputyn tells you, 'how many did you say were ToB flagged roughly?'
[Wed Aug 16 00:03:08 2006] You told Rasputyn, 'right now? Rough estimate...about 12 or so, maybe less. We haven't been pushing it since we got into Qvic'
[Wed Aug 16 00:03:13 2006] Rasputyn tells you, 'well, another thing is, after most of yer guild is Anguish keyed, they can always do augs or something, even if there wasn't room'
[Wed Aug 16 00:03:34 2006] You told Rasputyn, 'yah, I'm pretty sure we'd hit up Anguish aug runs at LEAST on a raid night if we weren't with you guys.'
[Wed Aug 16 00:03:50 2006] You told Rasputyn, 'the aug runs would give us a beautiful alternative to finding targets.'
[Wed Aug 16 00:04:02 2006] You told Rasputyn, 'and that should keep us busy a LONG time'
[Wed Aug 16 00:04:21 2006] Rasputyn tells you, 'well, and I won't be able to convince my people to stay late every night either. This will likely end up being a 1-2 a week thing, if we can make it fly'
[Wed Aug 16 00:04:55 2006] Rasputyn tells you, 'Sverag/ToB sound better and better now, because then we don't have to juggle lockouts'
[Wed Aug 16 00:05:58 2006] Rasputyn tells you, 'anyways, this is still a ways off, let's get some Anguish keys done, and see where we're at. You have any certain order you want for people to get keyed?'
[Wed Aug 16 00:06:45 2006] You told Rasputyn, 'send me a tell and I'll send you a guild member'
[Wed Aug 16 00:07:58 2006] Rasputyn tells you, 'k, and if yer not online? Remember, I won't always know when we'll have a rot key'
[Wed Aug 16 00:08:07 2006] You told Rasputyn, 'I'm assuming ancient spells will probably come with the flag?'
[Wed Aug 16 00:08:14 2006] Rasputyn tells you, 'nod'
[Wed Aug 16 00:08:17 2006] You told Rasputyn, 'thought so'
[Wed Aug 16 00:08:47 2006] You told Rasputyn, 'I'm always at the raids. But in the event that I'm not, Keslin is next in charge. He's there when I'm not. His backup is Ruyene or Nexroth'
[Wed Aug 16 00:09:10 2006] Rasputyn tells you, 'k'
[Wed Aug 16 00:09:20 2006] You told Rasputyn, 'Ruyene is also an officer, Keslin too....Nexroth is an officer-in-training.'
[Wed Aug 16 00:09:24 2006] Rasputyn tells you, 'if it's like 6pm, just /who all secrecy, and get anyone?'
[Wed Aug 16 00:09:26 2006] You told Rasputyn, 'but (Nexroth) will be filled in on how this works'
[Wed Aug 16 00:10:06 2006] You told Rasputyn, 'I don't want to see people who barely make raids getting them over people who make all the raids.'
[Wed Aug 16 00:10:22 2006] You told Rasputyn, 'hmm'
[Wed Aug 16 00:10:31 2006] Rasputyn tells you, 'nod'
[Wed Aug 16 00:10:44 2006] You told Rasputyn, 'I mean, I know a way to have you send tells to the right people, however it is "work" on your part, and I don't want to have that either.'
[Wed Aug 16 00:11:51 2006] You told Rasputyn, 'At 6pm, we generally only have about 10 people online, of those 10, you could crosscheck their attendance on our dkp site (if you ALT-Tab out, can do this in a matter of seconds by crosschecking names with the attendance records on dkp site)'
--- [End Transmission August 15-16, 2006] ---

Ok, those are the logs of the conversations I've had. Mainly, because they're static zones, they would want to raid Sverag raid mobs and ToB raid mobs, and once a week, during their Anguish clears, throw us keys / ancients and possibly even 2.0 orbs. I would like to point out that who gets what is entirely at officer / guild leader discretion. Fryar will send me a tell stating what is rotting and available to us, then I will relay that to the guild and either assign a loot/key winner or allow guild members who are online to "buy the loot rights" to it via DKP.

This entire process will be very unconventional in terms of a normal night of raiding for us. One night at 9pm or 10pm we may stop our raiding and run to them when they call us. To start out, we're just going to get Anguish keyed. This will mean that during our normal raid night, he'll send me a tell and say a key is rotting, I will then pick a member (50% based on guild need, 40% based on attendance, 10% based on who has been in the guild the longest).

I'd like to remind you that keys/loot are the property of Secrecy guild management the second I get the tell from Fryar that something is rotting and available, until such time as we hand them down to you, the members. I don't want people bitching about who got what. This partnership agreement DOES NOT FOLLOW our guild rules about how loot is distributed, so I don't want to hear people bitching about who got what and why PersonA got something over PersonB. Again, loot is not guild member property until such time as we, guild management, gives it to members.

Once again, I'd like to remind all of you to NOT overstep your officers/leader by sending tells directly to Relentless members and/or their guild management. None of you are to have any communications about this deal, fairness of who got what, or general ranting to their membership. I am issuing a "Zero Tolerance" policy regarding anyone who breaks this rule. I have instructed Fryar to immediately inform me of anyone in Secrecy who deliberately attempts to undermine the nature of this agreement by breaking this rule. You will be removed from Secrecy and perma-banned from ever applying to Relentless.

We are guests on their raids and you are all ambassadors of Secrecy. Goofing off, not being where you are supposed to be, or taking an excessive amount of time getting somewhere we tell you to get will not be tolerated. If they tell us all to get to Sverag, I expect all of you to be able to traverse thru Devastation without getting killed. This means dodging see-invis mobs, looking around you at all times and "considering" all mobs to check for see-invis status. If you die en route, we will NOT wait for you, and you will be dropped from the raid.

I want to make this as enjoyable and stress-free for The Relentless as I can, and having to tell their raid to wait because someone in our guild died because "their invis broke" is inexcusible. With invis potions in a potion belt, invis doesn't break until you get "You feel yourself starting to appear" flashing in your chat window twice before it breaks. This means you have 12 seconds from the time you see the warning to click an invis pot in your potion belt to reactivate invis. Having invis drop and getting aggro from a see-invis is avoidable.

Again, I ask all of you to work on ToB flag and Anguish sigs NOW. I expect EVERYONE to be ToB flagged by September 1. Those that are not will be left behind on raids and you will not be added to the DKP logs to get DKP for that night. This also means your attendance percentage will drop because you "weren't at the raid" and your ability to get loot from these joint raids will be hampered.

If anyone has questions, feel free to reply with them here.

[Arkaron]

What the fuck?

Don't you have guild boards for this shit?

You will be removed from Secrecy and perma-banned from ever applying to Relentless.

Just having Secrecy in your guild history should get you kicked from several apps, unless you knew what you were doing in the first place. Pretty unlikely from what I can tell, here.

[Select]

Arky, I love you when you're ticked. <3

[Freecare Spiritwise]

I'll admit, when I first started reading this post, I barely had an erection at all. Now I'm fully hard with the possibilities that this epic alliance can accomplish.

We are guests on their raids and you are all ambassadors of Secrecy.

Shouldn't an ambassador of secrecy, uhm, keep things secret? Bastards, now everyone knows!

[Gryphranger2.0]

this board hasnt seen a real rant in like 5 years

[Croinc]

Tue Aug 15 00:05:52 2006] You told Rasputyn, 'once you get a proposition setup, send me an eqmail / email ( crystallized @ aol . com ), and I'll submit it to my officers as well'

Crystallized......

Why does that name ring the asshat bell somehow? I forgot. But, I do know that my asshat bell is ringing.

--Cro

[Ment]

Croinc! I am a lazy bard.....but them SECRET people are funny! I have never seen such cut logs rofl.... 10-20 tells with no response means HEY I STOOOOOPID.

Is Tori alive??

What is the mystery?

There is a corner ....learn how to use it:)

[Falundir X`Viento]

Tue Aug 15 00:05:52 2006] You told Rasputyn, 'once you get a proposition setup, send me an eqmail / email ( crystallized @ aol . com ), and I'll submit it to my officers as well'

Crystallized......

Why does that name ring the asshat bell somehow? I forgot. But, I do know that my asshat bell is ringing.

--Cro

I don't remember many details either but he was one of the people who would host indi raids before joining that one pickup raid guild in PoP.

[Ariannda Kusanagi]

Wasn't Crystallized always associated with Tori ? Like they were the same person or something ?

[Ariannda Kusanagi]

If they tell us all to get to Sverag, I expect all of you to be able to traverse thru Devastation without getting killed. This means dodging see-invis mobs, looking around you at all times and "considering" all mobs to check for see-invis status. If you die en route, we will NOT wait for you, and you will be dropped from the raid.

HAHA i'd never make a raid, they might as well raid drop and BAN me lol

[Jaradis Stormcaller]

What the fuck?

Don't you have guild boards for this shit?

You will be removed from Secrecy and perma-banned from ever applying to Relentless.

Just having Secrecy in your guild history should get you kicked from several apps, unless you knew what you were doing in the first place. Pretty unlikely from what I can tell, here.

Just a guess. But looks to me like Sanolya copied that from Secrecy's boards and posted it here to have some fun with it.

I'd like to remind you that keys/loot are the property of Secrecy guild management the second I get the tell from Fryar that something is rotting and available, until such time as we hand them down to you, the members. I don't want people bitching about who got what. This partnership agreement DOES NOT FOLLOW our guild rules about how loot is distributed, so I don't want to hear people bitching about who got what and why PersonA got something over PersonB. Again, loot is not guild member property until such time as we, guild management, gives it to members.

Hahahahaha.


Fryar, my friend... you need to get so far away from this guild and its leader that its not even funny.

[Jaradis Stormcaller]

Let me correct that, there are probably a good bit of decent people in Secrecy. I still would recommend you avoid this alliance.

[Valoria1234]

hmmm how funny...

[Arkaron]

I stand corrected. Sanolya is in IoA.

(I'm still not sure this is better)[/quote]

[Valoria1234]

Circle of Power

[Chants Evensong]

Thanks for isolating that key quote for me, Jaradis. There was no way I was going to read that thing.

To the poster: Follow Jaradis' advice. The alliance is a formula for destructive relationships ill conducive to long term fun.

[Ddrak]

Loot council is by far the best, fairest and most constructive method for distributing loot to further guild goals and improve members equipment. The only downside is it puts a massive burden on the officers to distribute it impartially and requires that the members implicitly trust the officers to do so.

Of course, if you don't trust the officers then the question arises - why are you in the guild again?

Dd

[Arathena]

Loot council is by far the best, fairest and most constructive method for distributing loot to further guild goals and improve members equipment. The only downside is it puts a massive burden on the officers to distribute it impartially and requires that the members implicitly trust the officers to do so.

Of course, if you don't trust the officers then the question arises - why are you in the guild again?

Dd

This is best accomplished when your officers are cyber-lich-kings with perfect and complete working knowledge of game mechanics, and the ability to simultaneously access 40+ magelo accounts and attendance records. For us mere mortals..

The first quote, having been involved with TR rot & alt loot in the past, uhm. Yeaaaah.

[Kulaf]

I think Loot Council works great until you hit a certain critical size in the guild.......or in situations were you don't have a lot of time to decide who gets what before the raid needs to move on.

Small guilds can use counciled loot all day long......large guilds are better off with DKP.

[Ddrak]

Ara and Kula are, of course, correct about loot council. Kula actually describes exactly why Watchers went to DKP when I was leading them - we just couldn't keep up any more with who to give elemental plate boots to.

In my current guild with 24 on any given raid from about 20 different classes, the loot distribution is usually very easy so DKP would just be overkill. Keldoth does whore all the loot for his rogue alt though.

Dd