So much for your assumptions...

[Trollbait]

http://www.nysun.com/article/31062

Contrary to published reports, a State Department memorandum at the center of the investigation into the leak of the name of a CIA operative, Valerie Plame, appears to offer no particular indication that Ms. Plame's role at the agency was classified or covert.

[SicTimMitchell]

So the argument has changed from "she wasn't covert" to "they didn't know she was covert."

Sweet. We've been down this primrose path before.

[Kulaf]

Well the NY Sun is not exactly impartial either. It is nice to see the declasified version......and it validated what I originally argued......that most of the paragraphs were taged with the "Secret" marker.

[Trollbait]

Nobody is changing an argument here.

A document has been released that other media had reported on previously without ever actually having seen the document. Apparently their "un-named sources" are not very good.

Having a document that does not show her as covert does not change the argument that she was not, in fact, covert. In fact it strengthens that argument.

This is a State Dept. memo.

So ask yourself these questions...

1) Where did the State Dept get the information contained in the memo?

Answer: The only source who had it. The CIA

2) If the State Dept got their info from the CIA and Valerie Plame was indeed a "covert" agent as has been alleged then why would the CIA include her name, her function, her employment status with the CIA, and her relationship to Wilson in a document originally intended for use at the State Dept.?

[Kulaf]

I believe a low level State Department person attended these meetings. They put together the memo from his notes and from others who attended. I don't think they got the information from the CIA.

[Partha]

Note the section wherein Mr. Ford asserts:

What follows is based on our paper and electronic files

Therefore they received no knowledge of Plame's identity from the CIA; it was information they already had on file - which says nothing about whether or not she was covert (They may also have gained such information from the INR people who attended that February meeting). The information itself is marked S//NF, which stands for Secret: NOFORN. I'm sure Jecks (were I to believe he is what he claims to be repeatedly) would be able to tell you what the definition of both notations is, and how such notations attached to a block of text are applied to the text itself.

[Kulaf]

I agree Partha.....however the past reports......and in some cases here on this board.....were that the only reason the paragraph would be marked "Secret" was due to it containing her name. We can see now that that is simply not the case.

[Partha]

That is a mistaken assumption. Rereading the Pincus/Vandehei piece that originally broke it, it made mention of the fact that the entire document was stamped Secret.

A classified State Department memorandum central to a federal leak investigation contained information about CIA officer Valerie Plame in a paragraph marked "(S)" for secret, a clear indication that any Bush administration official who read it should have been aware the information was classified, according to current and former government officials.

Plame -- who is referred to by her married name, Valerie Wilson, in the memo -- is mentioned in the second paragraph of the three-page document, which was written on June 10, 2003, by an analyst in the State Department's Bureau of Intelligence and Research (INR), according to a source who described the memo to The Washington Post.

The paragraph identifying her as the wife of former ambassador Joseph C. Wilson IV was clearly marked to show that it contained classified material at the "secret" level, two sources said. The CIA classifies as "secret" the names of officers whose identities are covert, according to former senior agency officials.

Anyone reading that paragraph should have been aware that it contained secret information, though that designation was not specifically attached to Plame's name and did not describe her status as covert, the sources said. It is a federal crime, punishable by up to 10 years in prison, for a federal official to knowingly disclose the identity of a covert CIA official if the person knows the government is trying to keep it secret.

Since then, we've had the CIA ask for and receive an investigation into the leaking of her other name (Plame), and as Klast notes quite well, if anyone is best informed as to whether she was covert or not, it was the CIA.

[Partha]

Oh, and here is the original post I made that originally linked to that article.

http://www.brellrants.net/forum/viewtop ... ion#190895

Amazing, rereading that thread, how willfully blind some of you were. And still are.

[Kulaf]

Oh, and here is the original post I made that originally linked to that article.

http://www.brellrants.net/forum/viewtop ... ion#190895

Amazing, rereading that thread, how willfully blind some of you were. And still are.

Yeah.....all those people who said it was Karl Rove.

Blind blind blindity blind blind blind.

[Partha]

So you're saying that Rove never talked to Cooper? Or are you saying that Fitzgerald has publicly exonerated Rove?

[Kulaf]

That is a mistaken assumption. Rereading the Pincus/Vandehei piece that originally broke it, it made mention of the fact that the entire document was stamped Secret.

A classified State Department memorandum central to a federal leak investigation contained information about CIA officer Valerie Plame in a paragraph marked "(S)" for secret, a clear indication that any Bush administration official who read it should have been aware the information was classified, according to current and former government officials.

Plame -- who is referred to by her married name, Valerie Wilson, in the memo -- is mentioned in the second paragraph of the three-page document, which was written on June 10, 2003, by an analyst in the State Department's Bureau of Intelligence and Research (INR), according to a source who described the memo to The Washington Post.

The paragraph identifying her as the wife of former ambassador Joseph C. Wilson IV was clearly marked to show that it contained classified material at the "secret" level, two sources said. The CIA classifies as "secret" the names of officers whose identities are covert, according to former senior agency officials.

Anyone reading that paragraph should have been aware that it contained secret information, though that designation was not specifically attached to Plame's name and did not describe her status as covert, the sources said. It is a federal crime, punishable by up to 10 years in prison, for a federal official to knowingly disclose the identity of a covert CIA official if the person knows the government is trying to keep it secret.

Since then, we've had the CIA ask for and receive an investigation into the leaking of her other name (Plame), and as Klast notes quite well, if anyone is best informed as to whether she was covert or not, it was the CIA.

Sorry......am I missing it........where does it state that the entire document was marked secret?

[Kulaf]

So you're saying that Rove never talked to Cooper? Or are you saying that Fitzgerald has publicly exonerated Rove?

I think I am saying exactly what I said.

[Partha]

That is a mistaken assumption. Rereading the Pincus/Vandehei piece that originally broke it, it made mention of the fact that the entire document was stamped Secret.

A classified State Department memorandum central to a federal leak investigation contained information about CIA officer Valerie Plame in a paragraph marked "(S)" for secret, a clear indication that any Bush administration official who read it should have been aware the information was classified, according to current and former government officials.

Plame -- who is referred to by her married name, Valerie Wilson, in the memo -- is mentioned in the second paragraph of the three-page document, which was written on June 10, 2003, by an analyst in the State Department's Bureau of Intelligence and Research (INR), according to a source who described the memo to The Washington Post.

The paragraph identifying her as the wife of former ambassador Joseph C. Wilson IV was clearly marked to show that it contained classified material at the "secret" level, two sources said. The CIA classifies as "secret" the names of officers whose identities are covert, according to former senior agency officials.

Anyone reading that paragraph should have been aware that it contained secret information, though that designation was not specifically attached to Plame's name and did not describe her status as covert, the sources said. It is a federal crime, punishable by up to 10 years in prison, for a federal official to knowingly disclose the identity of a covert CIA official if the person knows the government is trying to keep it secret.

Since then, we've had the CIA ask for and receive an investigation into the leaking of her other name (Plame), and as Klast notes quite well, if anyone is best informed as to whether she was covert or not, it was the CIA.

Sorry......am I missing it........where does it state that the entire document was marked secret?

Sorry....am I missing it.....where is it presumed that classified information is put into unclassified documents with a SECRET tag on them? Can you do no deductive reasoning? Is this a failure of FOXNewsheads?

I think I am saying exactly what I said.

In other words, you are dodging because Rove has not been charged with a crime at this particular moment. Gotcha.

[Kulaf]

That is a mistaken assumption. Rereading the Pincus/Vandehei piece that originally broke it, it made mention of the fact that the entire document was stamped Secret.

A classified State Department memorandum central to a federal leak investigation contained information about CIA officer Valerie Plame in a paragraph marked "(S)" for secret, a clear indication that any Bush administration official who read it should have been aware the information was classified, according to current and former government officials.

Plame -- who is referred to by her married name, Valerie Wilson, in the memo -- is mentioned in the second paragraph of the three-page document, which was written on June 10, 2003, by an analyst in the State Department's Bureau of Intelligence and Research (INR), according to a source who described the memo to The Washington Post.

The paragraph identifying her as the wife of former ambassador Joseph C. Wilson IV was clearly marked to show that it contained classified material at the "secret" level, two sources said. The CIA classifies as "secret" the names of officers whose identities are covert, according to former senior agency officials.

Anyone reading that paragraph should have been aware that it contained secret information, though that designation was not specifically attached to Plame's name and did not describe her status as covert, the sources said. It is a federal crime, punishable by up to 10 years in prison, for a federal official to knowingly disclose the identity of a covert CIA official if the person knows the government is trying to keep it secret.

Since then, we've had the CIA ask for and receive an investigation into the leaking of her other name (Plame), and as Klast notes quite well, if anyone is best informed as to whether she was covert or not, it was the CIA.

Sorry......am I missing it........where does it state that the entire document was marked secret?

Sorry....am I missing it.....where is it presumed that classified information is put into unclassified documents with a SECRET tag on them? Can you do no deductive reasoning? Is this a failure of FOXNewsheads?

Ahh I see......you were talking out of your ass again. Got it.

[Kulaf]

[quote="Partha]In other words, you are dodging because Rove has not been charged with a crime at this particular moment. Gotcha.[/quote]

Not only has Rove not been charged with a crime.......but Libby has not been charged with any crime related directly to the leaking of Plame's name either.

I know that must really sting after all the time you spent trying to convince everyone otherwise.

[Partha]

You mean, that because Libby is being charged with lying to investigators and thereby impeding an investigation, that the investigation is therefore invalid? Gotcha.

[Embar Angylwrath]

I think Kulaf is taking issue with your statement that

That is a mistaken assumption. Rereading the Pincus/Vandehei piece that originally broke it, it made mention of the fact that the entire document was stamped Secret.

Then as supporting evidence, you quoted some text that read

A classified State Department memorandum central to a federal leak investigation contained information about CIA officer Valerie Plame in a paragraph marked "(S)" for secret,

bolded text quoted as posted...

So Partha, if they intended the entire document to be secret, why didn't they stamp the front page of the document, instead of isolating certain paragraphs?

[Kulaf]

No that is not really my point.......my point is they made mention of the paragraph being marked Secret......as it contained Plame's name. They made no mention of the classification of the other paragraphs.......nor of the document. Clearly this was done for one of two reasons: 1) Either they did not know of the classification of the document or the other paragraphs, or 2) They knew the classification but omitted it for effect.

Making it look as if the only paragraph in the document marked Secret was the one with Plame's name makes it look like the reason it is marked secret is because of Plame's name.

That and that Partha can't keep his story straight.

[Partha]

I think Kulaf is taking issue with your statement that

That is a mistaken assumption. Rereading the Pincus/Vandehei piece that originally broke it, it made mention of the fact that the entire document was stamped Secret.

Then as supporting evidence, you quoted some text that read

A classified State Department memorandum central to a federal leak investigation contained information about CIA officer Valerie Plame in a paragraph marked "(S)" for secret,

bolded text quoted as posted...

So Partha, if they intended the entire document to be secret, why didn't they stamp the front page of the document, instead of isolating certain paragraphs?

Embar, if you looked at the document, you would see that every paragraph was marked secret - but some had additional classifications. I'm sorry your mouse is not working again.