Volkswagen and Tennesee

[Arathena]

So: In its homeland of ye Old Deutschland, Volkswagen uses what are called "works councils" to govern its plants. The works council sets policies for how things work on the floor, and makes sure that management representatives, labor representatives, and engineering representatives are all talking together about every aspect of what's going on, and what they can all do to make it work best for the current situation. From VW's point of view, this is good for productivity and collaboration - it makes things work better for them. But it requires that the workers representatives have the legal authority to make agreements for all the workers on how the plant is going to work. And here in the US, that means the workers have to be unionized, if VW and its workers want their Tennesee plant to have a works council.

VW wants its councils: It's how it finds its plants run best, and has no problem dealing with a union - They've been dealing with IG Metall for years. The workers have yet to vote, but appear favorable on balance. So, the company is ok with the union, and may even be quietly encouraging it. The workers appear to want the union.

However, this is taking place in a Confederate state. Union? Cannot has! Volkswagen was promised significant financial incentives to bring their factory, and the attendant chain of jobs, to Tennesee. The GOP, which, of course, has the single party government of the state, however, is terrified of unionization, and is now threatening to strip those incentives if the workers vote to join the UAW, with intent to try to get VW to send future production to Mexico. Take lesson: If you have employees, the GOP really, really does not want you to work with them. Probably afraid that the hourly workers might get ideas about their labor having value. Small government - unless you do something that's not blessed by the Republican religion.

[Kulaf]

From what I read, the politicians have a problem with the UAW......not that the workers at this plant might wish to collectively bargain. The politicians claim that UAW representation could/will hurt the states ability to draw more manufacturing jobs.

[Arathena]

From what I read, the politicians have a problem with the UAW......not that the workers at this plant might wish to collectively bargain. The politicians claim that UAW representation could/will hurt the states ability to draw more manufacturing jobs.

And, of course, Grover Norquist is down there running ads accusing the UAW of donating to the Democrats, which is quite possibly what the Confederate party is most concerned about.

[Kulaf]

I'm pretty sure it is a given that Republicans that voted to get the plant there might not be too happy with workers being represented by a Union known to support their rivals.

[Fallakin Kuvari]

But, Kulaf. Everything you've said makes sense. That runs opposite of the narrative in the story laid out by Arathena, therefore you're clearly screwing up the logic center of his brain.

[Harlowe]

Kulaf's opinion isn't a counter-narrative ....good grief, sometimes you really try too hard. Trying to come off more intelligent than Arathena? That is a neutron star level of density.

[Torakus]

I have to agree with Kulaf here. Why shouldn't the GOP in Tennessee be opposed to this. They went to great effort to bring a couple thousand good paying jobs to Tennessee. Why would they want to allow a union that supports their opponents to come in and perturb their deal? And what does UAW really bring to the table for these workers? Surely not collective bargaining power. New hire UAW members in Detroit (10% higher cost of living than Chatanooga) make less than new hires at Chatanooga and VW is already increasing that 14.50 starting wage in TN to 19.50 over the next three years. Surely not safety or labor practices; those are and have been a matter of law for 40 years (besides labor unions don't really care about safety, go look at the safety page on most of their web sites and you will find out how to file a worker's comp claim, but you find fuck all about identifying and mitigating hazards).

I am not entirely opposed to them organizing a union, but UAW is a big corrupt business that they should avoid at all cost.

[Arathena]

I have to agree with Kulaf here. Why shouldn't the GOP in Tennessee be opposed to this. They went to great effort to bring a couple thousand good paying jobs to Tennessee. Why would they want to allow a union that supports their opponents to come in and perturb their deal? And what does UAW really bring to the table for these workers? Surely not collective bargaining power. New hire UAW members in Detroit (10% higher cost of living than Chatanooga) make less than new hires at Chatanooga and VW is already increasing that 14.50 starting wage in TN to 19.50 over the next three years. Surely not safety or labor practices; those are and have been a matter of law for 40 years (besides labor unions don't really care about safety, go look at the safety page on most of their web sites and you will find out how to file a worker's comp claim, but you find fuck all about identifying and mitigating hazards).

I am not entirely opposed to them organizing a union, but UAW is a big corrupt business that they should avoid at all cost.

Fortunately for the GOP, their intimidation campaign appears to have worked: The workers voted the UAW down.

What the UAW (Or any union) brought to the table was this: VW has a preferred method of plant governance that is illegal in the US unless the workers have agreed to collective bargaining. This is why the company wanted the union in the first place - it allows them to run the plant the way they think is best. Now, thanks to the vote, for everything that they consider adding to the Tennesee plant, they have to crunch the numbers and decide if the GOP tax breaks exceed the cost of the lost productivity that they've had forced onto them. Which, in general, is a good argument for sending expansionary work to Mexico - Cheaper labor and the company can work the way they want to.

What's stupid is that the GOP went along way to bring a couple thousand jobs to TN, and then threatened to do their level best to destroy those jobs, when it looked like there might be a union, any union at all. This is clearly not a party that is interested serving the people they govern; only in conserving personal power and profit.

[Torakus]

Your entire argument hinges on UAW being the only option. It is not. The workers can still legally organize and meet the requirements of the law without the UAW financial and political baggage. I hope they do. I am not an opponent of workers organizing.

[Arathena]

Your entire argument hinges on UAW being the only option. It is not. The workers can still legally organize and meet the requirements of the law without the UAW financial and political baggage. I hope they do. I am not an opponent of workers organizing.

Given the context of GOP attacks on all unions at every level, I do not presume that they will not threaten and intimidate ANY union that attempts to organize in Tennessee. Which, here, is the basic problem: Whatever the historical baggage with the UAW might be, we have a political party directly trying to intervene in their right to organize. Fuck them.

[Fallakin Kuvari]

Kulaf's opinion isn't a counter-narrative ....good grief, sometimes you really try too hard. Trying to come off more intelligent than Arathena? That is a neutron star level of density.

No, Arathena is just coming off as a un-informed jackass.

I thought we understood mocking people around here.

[Jarochai Alabaster]

Which, here, is the basic problem: Whatever the historical baggage with the UAW might be, we have a political party directly trying to intervene in their right to organize. Fuck them.

Really, this is the only thing that matters in this. The party of "non-interference" interfering yet again.

[Fallakin Kuvari]

The workers voted against the union, so its all moot anyway: http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/02 ... tennessee/

[Kulaf]

Your entire argument hinges on UAW being the only option. It is not. The workers can still legally organize and meet the requirements of the law without the UAW financial and political baggage. I hope they do. I am not an opponent of workers organizing.

Given the context of GOP attacks on all unions at every level, I do not presume that they will not threaten and intimidate ANY union that attempts to organize in Tennessee. Which, here, is the basic problem: Whatever the historical baggage with the UAW might be, we have a political party directly trying to intervene in their right to organize. Fuck them.

There are plenty of unions in TN:

http://www.yellowpages.com/nashville-tn/labor-unions

Those are Nashville alone......including several locals of the UAW.

[Torakus]

Your entire argument hinges on UAW being the only option. It is not. The workers can still legally organize and meet the requirements of the law without the UAW financial and political baggage. I hope they do. I am not an opponent of workers organizing.

Given the context of GOP attacks on all unions at every level, I do not presume that they will not threaten and intimidate ANY union that attempts to organize in Tennessee. Which, here, is the basic problem: Whatever the historical baggage with the UAW might be, we have a political party directly trying to intervene in their right to organize. Fuck them.

There are plenty of unions in TN:

http://www.yellowpages.com/nashville-tn/labor-unions

Those are Nashville alone......including several locals of the UAW.

And in fact it doesn't even have to be a currently organized union, nor do they have to go through the "vote to organize, submit to NLRB for recognition, get stuck with the choice to vote to become part of one or two big money unions" process. The workers at Chatanooga could simply form a committee call a vote and form their own union. VW would then recognize that union and BLAMMO, no need for UAW or any other union-in-name-only political organization.\

*cannot wait of the "the workers are too stupid to organize themselves" argument.

[Arathena]

Your entire argument hinges on UAW being the only option. It is not. The workers can still legally organize and meet the requirements of the law without the UAW financial and political baggage. I hope they do. I am not an opponent of workers organizing.

Given the context of GOP attacks on all unions at every level, I do not presume that they will not threaten and intimidate ANY union that attempts to organize in Tennessee. Which, here, is the basic problem: Whatever the historical baggage with the UAW might be, we have a political party directly trying to intervene in their right to organize. Fuck them.

There are plenty of unions in TN:

http://www.yellowpages.com/nashville-tn/labor-unions

Those are Nashville alone......including several locals of the UAW.

And yet, TN, as a state, ranks 40th in the state for rate of union membership. So, no, I do not believe that, should they choose to drive to organize, either a fresh organization, or with a lower profile union, there will not be a counter campaign from Republican elected officials and their owners. Are they capable of organizing themselves, if they choose? Yes. Yet there there will always be those individuals who are in precarious situations, and will take what they believe is the safest course in the face of direct intimidation from people in authority.

Had this smear campagain been waged by Volkswagen, they would be subject to prosecution by the department of labor - From an employer, it would have been full stop illegal. And that is the issue. Political intimidation of both labor AND capital, for what valid purpose? Feudalistic power? Vanity? Fuck Corker, Fuck Norquist, and Fuck the GOP.

[Kulaf]

So you have no issue with politicians interfering to get the place built by offering incentives that made TN an attractive place to build the plant......you just want them to then shut up and not interfere after. Yeah......ok.

[Embar Angylwrath]

I'm missing something here. Why does collaborative management require workers be unionized? Can't VW get the same outcome of engaging all levels of production and management in a dialogue that makes the company better? What's illegal about that?

[Arathena]

So you have no issue with politicians interfering to get the place built by offering incentives that made TN an attractive place to build the plant......you just want them to then shut up and not interfere after. Yeah......ok.

I want their motivations clear and on the table. If they wanted jobs and tax revenue, they attract VW, and let them work the way they want, so long as they're not poisoning the environment and killing/injuring laborers. If all they want is to retain elected office and get some graft on the side, fuck 'em with a hot branding iron, with extra burrs. We can, should, and MUST demand that our elected officials are working for our benefit. The fact that it's from the party whose propaganda runs along the lines "We'll lower your taxes and let businesses do whatever!" only adds the delicious spice of hypocrisy to the mix.

So, yes, frankly, I expect that they can shut up and accept the consequences of inviting a European company into TN - It's called due diligence. If they weren't smart enough to look at the VW way of doing things before drawing them, and writing it out at the beginning, then their constituents should be embarassed. I also expect them to not try to bully their own constituents. Fuck em.

Embar: Under US law, the works council itself is considered a form of union: It negotiates the contracts, work hours, work rules, etc. However, under US law, which sets up the union and the employer as adversaries, rather than collaborators, it is ALSO illegal for the company to create a union and force employees into it; the employees must vote to join a union, which can then establish itself as the negotiator at the table provided by the works council. The UAW in specific isn't needed, just a union.

[Kulaf]

"We can, should, and MUST demand that our elected officials are working for our benefit."

Sorry, I had no idea you were a resident of TN. You are right......you have every right to demand that your elected officials are working for the benefit of the state of TN and its residents.