Egypt

[Embar Angylwrath]

Another Obama shuck and jive...

Last year, we get this:
http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2012/06/25/ ... med-morsi/

Obama recognizes Morsi is the duly elected leader of Egypt, elected in a democratic process.

Now Morsi is has been forcibly removed by the military. If it walks like a coup, talks like a coup, its a coup. But Obama just can't seem to bring himself to utter those words. In fact, you can't any person in his administration to even acknowledge the word even exists. He can't say the "C" word because if he does, we can't send aid to Egypt, so he just clams up.

Now that's leadership you can believe in!

Obama: Ignoring the law for the sake of a better 'Merica.

[Arkaron]

Pretty much nobody is going to use the C word. See also: Latin America. But, it'll be interesting to see how this turns out.

[Kulaf]

Probably because it's not really a coup. It's more of a recall by force. No one has stepped in saying they are running the country. The military has called for new elections.

[Ddrak]

Uh, you're suggesting the better option is call it a coup and stop sending aid? That's about as helpful as accusing Israel of human rights abuses and stopping their aid.

Dd

[Harlowe]

Now that's leadership you can believe in!

Obama: Ignoring the law for the sake of a better 'Merica.

Doesn't really matter what the details of any given situation is, you just enjoy tossing out gems like this.

[Embar Angylwrath]

Now that's leadership you can believe in!

Obama: Ignoring the law for the sake of a better 'Merica.

Doesn't really matter what the details of any given situation is, you just enjoy tossing out gems like this.

When I posted this, I knew you'd comment on the delivery, rather than the message. Got a real opinion on the matter Harlowe?

@Dd - Yeah, I have a better option. Instead of ignoring the law, pass another that modifies the current law to grant Egypt an exemption. It might be the first significant bi-partisan act of Congress other than naming post offices.

@Kulaf - Egypt had a democratic-based election, and Morsi won. The military removed him by force, and installed an interim leadership council, so he was replaced with a new head of government. That's a coup.

And what if the Egyptians don't like the next guy they elect, get pissy about it, and he's forcibly removed? Is the US going to say that's just democracy in action?

[Kulaf]

@Kulaf - Egypt had a democratic-based election, and Morsi won. The military removed him by force, and installed an interim leadership council, so he was replaced with a new head of government. That's a coup.

Not by any traditional sense of the word it isn't. If the "leadership council" doesn't surrender power after the new election.......THEN it will be a coup.

[Embar Angylwrath]

@Kulaf - Egypt had a democratic-based election, and Morsi won. The military removed him by force, and installed an interim leadership council, so he was replaced with a new head of government. That's a coup.

Not by any traditional sense of the word it isn't. If the "leadership council" doesn't surrender power after the new election.......THEN it will be a coup.

Bullshit.

The leadership council IS the new head of state, period. What they do next is irrelevant. A new head of state was imposed after the forcible removal of a democratically elected head of state.

If the 99% in this country started protesting Obama's policies, and convinced the military to remove him from office, and placed the Supreme Court in charge of the country, under your definition, that would not be a coup. And essentially, that's what happened in Egypt, right? We can convince the military to depose Obama, or another President, simply because we don't like what he's doing? Heretical thought to democracy, if you ask me, but maybe your definition of democracy is more... fluid.

I think most Americans, whether they like Obama or not, would see that circumstance as a coup. A usurpation of the democratic process. But I'm a little ignorant in the Egyptian constitution, or whatever is the equivalent. Can you please point me to the part of that document that allows for the arbitrary judgement of the military to decide what's in the best interests of the electorate?

Let me save you the trouble. You can't, and you are smart enough to know it. This is a coup. Obama has to deal with it. Sucks it happened on his watch, but there it is. I'm betting he's having second and third thoughts about endorsing the Arab Spring though, especially as it relates to the Muslim Brotherhood.

[Ddrak]

The military in Egypt is playing the "you can have any democratically elected leader you want, as long as we approve" game. That's just a coup dressed up pretty. It's the same game the US plays - consider Hamas winning the Palestinian election as an example.

As for the law, it's a funny thing. Changing the law sends a powerful message that the US cares more about people it likes than democracy. That sounds less and less like being the "good guys", and I doubt you'd find support on either side for behaving that way. Too easy to be attacked on at the next election.

On the Arab Spring - yeah, funny how it's more about factional power than any sort of renaissance.

Dd

[Kulaf]

Let me save you the trouble. You can't, and you are smart enough to know it. This is a coup. Obama has to deal with it. Sucks it happened on his watch, but there it is. I'm betting he's having second and third thoughts about endorsing the Arab Spring though, especially as it relates to the Muslim Brotherhood.

We don't have a history of removing officials from government and installing new ones. The assassination of Anwar Sadat was a coup. By Egyptian standards.....this was not.

If you consider this a coup, then the 2011 revolution was a coup as well as the military took control of the government until the elections could take place.

[Embar Angylwrath]

Are you implying there has to be an assassination before its a coup?

[Partha]

We don't have a history of removing officials from government and installing new ones

Sure we do, just not generally in America. Iran 1953, anyone? Saddam? The Taliban?

[Kulaf]

Are you implying there has to be an assassination before its a coup?

No. But traditionally the people who take power don't relinquish it.

[Kulaf]

We don't have a history of removing officials from government and installing new ones

Sure we do, just not generally in America. Iran 1953, anyone? Saddam? The Taliban?

You forgot Frederick Wilhelm, Adolf Hitler, Benito Mussolini and Hirohito.

[Ddrak]

Are you implying there has to be an assassination before its a coup?

No. But traditionally the people who take power don't relinquish it.

The Egyptian military is clever. They depose leaders when they start going beyond the lines the military wants them to work within. It's all about "democracy", as long as you go in the broad direction WE want.

A little like the Illuminati in the US.

Dd

[Partha]

We don't have a history of removing officials from government and installing new ones

Sure we do, just not generally in America. Iran 1953, anyone? Saddam? The Taliban?

You forgot Frederick Wilhelm, Adolf Hitler, Benito Mussolini and Hirohito.

We're not discussing your role models here; pay attention.

[Kulaf]

We don't have a history of removing officials from government and installing new ones

Sure we do, just not generally in America. Iran 1953, anyone? Saddam? The Taliban?

You forgot Frederick Wilhelm, Adolf Hitler, Benito Mussolini and Hirohito.

We're not discussing your role models here; pay attention.

Only if you want to lay claim to the Shah, Saddam and the Taliban there buttercup.

[Kulaf]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Egyptian_protests

A timeline of what transpired prior to the removal of Morsi. I think his decesion to make himself a "dictator in effect" for 2 weeks and shove his Constitution on Egypt basically shattered any trust the people of Egypt had in him.

[Arkaron]

We don't have a history of removing officials from government and installing new ones

Sure we do, just not generally in America. Iran 1953, anyone? Saddam? The Taliban?

Chile!

See, this game is fun.

[Harlowe]

This kid is awesome...speaking of Egypt

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QeDm2PrNV1I