Holistic Medicine/Alternative Healing

[Garrdor]

http://www.shamanic-healing.org/

What do y'all think about this stuff? I work in the medical field, so you can probably guess my stance.

Check this shit out

What the fuck? Don't listen to it while driving, because your soul might grab the ankles of a bald eagle and fly you away while your body gets thrown through the windshield in a 70mph head-on.

I've heard of household remedies, but this shit...

I have a story to share with y'all. I took a trip to Ashland - a very very uh... 'different' town here in Southern Oregon. My fiancee dragged me into this "Massage oils for the soul" shop. There was a huge amount of oils and massage aids that you could mix together in a container to stack effects. (Soul cleansing, relaxing fragrance, awareness expanding, etc). We ended up mixing a few things together... $40 later, I'm at home and she's about to give me this voodoo back massage.

The shit burnt like crazy, and I have a discolored area on my back to this day (this was like 4 years ago). That was the only time I've ever had acne on my back/shoulders in my life. I took a lukewarm shower afterwards and ended up screaming in pain just from the water hitting my back.

There was a 'theraputic touch' class here at the hospital where I work. I didn't know that you could relieve pain by hovering your hands over the area of discomfort. News to me.

Whats your stance on this shit? Anybody here stand by it?

[Taxious]

I think a lot of this stuff only works because of the mental aspect associated with it.

[Harlowe]

I think it's all in their heads. Placebo effect ....yada yada.

[Arathena]

His shit is probably mostly crap. However, most alternative medicine systems have certain bits that can and should be dredged out of them, and used where indicated in evidence-based practives - see Osteopaty. Traditional Chinese Medicine is probably the next one that's going to get winnowed through, standardized, and main streamed. If there's anything real here - that is, anything that's been passed down across however many generations and slowly improved, then there may be something worthwhile. However, let's just say that if this was a school of martial arts, the 'about us' page would send me running for the hiils. The whole thing has the 'we don't know anything, so here's some fancy words and big names' feeling to it. Lots of chances to buy something, lots of shallow dips into lots of pools. Bad smell.

There is a mental and emotional part to human health. Western medicine is not very good at handling them. Some old stuff is better. Some old stuff is good. Some old stuff is just old.

About the only completely useless and pointless piece of crap alternative medicine that I've run across is homeopathy. What a joke that is.

[Fobbon Lazyfoot]

I do a lot of reading on local medicinal plants, and from my experience there's plenty of sound reasoning behind natural remedies.

The problem is that there is a serious gap between "traditional" naturalistic medicine that was honed over many generations and "new age" bullshit that misinformed hippies try to pawn off. Mainstream medicine had the same problems, until the Pure Food & Drug Act...or whatever it was called. That particular site looks like bullshit to me.

All the same... there's a lot we still don't understand about the more subtle workings of the body and mind. Eastern medicine and techniques have some pretty dramatic examples of natural remedies or cures or meditative dick-punching or whatever.

I try to keep my mind open, but still take everything with a grain or two of salt. That usually means not actually spending any money on junk like that, but I wouldn't mind trying it, if the price was right (i.e. free).

[Mukik]

Just be glad she didnt try to give you a happy ending with the oils.

[Ddrak]

I was gonna post something but Fobbon and Ara said everything I really wanted to.

Dd

[Garrdor]

Just be glad she didnt try to give you a happy ending with the oils.

[Klast Brell]

I forget what comic said this, but I like it.
"Scientists examined and tested all the alternative medicines. The stuff that works, they call MEDICINE!"

[Riggen]

Three words: crock of shit.

[Alluveal]

Depends on the practitioner. If you're lumping in "holistic" with metaphysical dragon oil crap, then you're not understanding holistic medicine.

I think there is a huge mental placebo component to this, sure.

But, I think that some remedies work wonders. Ginger was the only thing that helped my morning sickness when I was pregnant (and it's absolutely amazing for sinuses, etc).

I can't comment on the Reiki and the "soul cleansing" and stuff. I've never done it. I might try it once (if it's free) and save judgment for after the fact.

I am not sure about acupuncture. I've heard good and bad about it (but again, is it the mental component)? I do know that Eastern medicine focuses a lot more on prevention than Western medicine does. I like that concept, sure.

I love me some hippie stuff, but sometimes it goes way overboard. Boulder used to be interesting. Now it's just dirty and full of people who never wash their hair and call that "holistic."

[Arathena]

This specific practitioner displays all the earmarks of a crock of shit, how about that, Lulu?

Many herbal medicines do function. A significant portion of the drugs utilized in evidence-based medicine are derived from bases that are basically herbal in nature - the quinine classes of antibiotics(Cinchoa bark), Asprin(Willow Bark), Morphene&Codeine(the Poppy). The major issues with the rawer state of these medicines tends to be almost uncontrollable dosage, due to the variation in the growth of plants.

Eastern (Read: Chinese) medicine does tend to have a higher portion of its time spent on preventative care, and on keeping the systems from running amok. It is seriously hampered by a theoretical system grounded in an analogue to the four humors.

We've only been doing this modern medicine thing, with things like evidence and studies for about a hundred and fifty years. We don't understand it all yet. But we have started to get a handle on it. It's going to take a while to finish culling everything that's useful from the old stuff, and the right mindset to do so.

[Embar Angylwrath]

Allu (and Ara, but Ara already knows this)

"Bases" has a chemical meaning. It means an alkaline compund (pH greater than 7 when dissolved in water). It does not mean "foundation". So when Ara speaks of bases in a plant, he means "alkaline compounds", which include most of the narcotics, most of the hallucinogenics, most of the sedatives, and some of the analgesics. He does not mean a "plant foundation from which to build a compound."

That said, there is PLENTY of herbal/animological treatments for all sorts of conditions. Modern pharmaceuticals have attempted to isolate specific affects with specific compounds. That has worked, but doesn't always work. Ask yourself why it doesn't always work.

[Arathena]

Allu (and Ara, but Ara already knows this)

"Bases" has a chemical meaning. It means an alkaline compund (pH greater than 7 when dissolved in water). It does not mean "foundation". So when Ara speaks of bases in a plant, he means "alkaline compounds", which include most of the narcotics, most of the hallucinogenics, most of the sedatives, and some of the analgesics. He does not mean a "plant foundation from which to build a compound."

That said, there is PLENTY of herbal/animological treatments for all sorts of conditions. Modern pharmaceuticals have attempted to isolate specific affects with specific compounds. That has worked, but doesn't always work. Ask yourself why it doesn't always work.

Well, in this case, I do mean a plant foundation. Many of these chemicals come from plants, and are manufactured by distilling the saps and essences of the plant, especially the narcotics. We're so dependent on the opium poppy it's hilarious. However, in many cases, just feeding the herb straight in is dumb. You simply have no control over the amount of active ingredient you're getting. By refinement, you end up with efficacy, and safety. Others, it's simply more efficient to synthesize, straight up. Medicine that works 99% of the time is a vast improvement over medicine that works 50% of the time. (And kills 5% of the time.)

[Partha]

Not really on point, but I read a good article on M.S. Tswett from 2003 the other day. Interesting stuff.

[Fobbon Lazyfoot]

By refinement, you end up with efficacy, and safety. Others, it's simply more efficient to synthesize, straight up. Medicine that works 99% of the time is a vast improvement over medicine that works 50% of the time. (And kills 5% of the time.)

This, unfortunately, is a point frequently lost on the alternative healing crowd. "Natural" is a word being used nowadays, from everything from foods to medicines to toothpaste, to mean "superior".

Also frequently lost is the concept that plant chemicals do not inherently exist to benefit humans. Hell, most of the time they exist to deter herbivory, its just some silly chemical accident that they have the effects that they do. Alternative medicines are exactly that - alternative. As in, to be used when other modern options have been exhausted and are deemed inappropriate to the situation.

[Arathena]

This, unfortunately, is a point frequently lost on the alternative healing crowd. "Natural" is a word being used nowadays, from everything from foods to medicines to toothpaste, to mean "superior".

Also frequently lost is the concept that plant chemicals do not inherently exist to benefit humans. Hell, most of the time they exist to deter herbivory, its just some silly chemical accident that they have the effects that they do. Alternative medicines are exactly that - alternative. As in, to be used when other modern options have been exhausted and are deemed inappropriate to the situation.

Every medicine, poison, every poison, medicine.

Natrual Botox will fuck your shit up.