Smiling

[Embar Angylwrath]

When humans (and some other closely related apes) smile, we lift our lips and show our teeth. In just about any other organism able to show teeth, the display is one of hostility and a warning of possible attack. Anyone have some ideas why in humans, the showing of teeth is a sign of non-hostility?

[Select]

Perhaps because we rarely use our teeth as a weapon. We're more likely to attack with the arms and so we watch the arms for signs of threat.
Also, a lot of people find teeth attractive, so showing something pretty that isn't a primary weapon isn't so threatening.

[Ariannda Kusanagi]

Also, a lot of people find teeth attractive

Hence the billions of dollars a year people spend on tooth brushes,toothpaste, mouthwash, toothpicks, orthodontists and teeth whitening products.

I agree with Select, also it's the connotation whereas smiling is a friendly gesture, but snarling is a warning, just as with dogs. There's a difference between "baring teeth" and smiling (unless you ask the woman who one day called me to tell that my dog was showing his teeth at her as i was outside with him and he was happily running around the yard... yeah he was running, with his tongue hanging out of his mouth, therefore showing his teeth... stupid blonde bimbo)

[Fobbon Lazyfoot]

the display is one of hostility and a warning of possible attack

Big cats and dogs, or most any other high social animal, bear their teeth when playing - it's not taken as a sign of hostility, as far as I can tell. Body language is more than just showing your teeth, but I don't think anything besides a social animal needs to use it for anything other than aggression.

[Klast Brell]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smile
Many biologists think the smile originated as a sign of fear. Primalogist Signe Preuschoft traces the smile back over 30 million years of evolution to a "fear grin" stemming from monkeys and apes who often used barely clenched teeth to portray to predators that they were harmless. Biologists believe the smile has evolved differently among species and especially among humans.

[Rsak]

Its for the same reasons we consider a handshake a friendly gesture. It is a non-threatening behavior that shows our hands are empty.

But then those damn fool women decided to use smiling for flirting and that box can never be closed again.

[Freecare Spiritwise]

My thought is that because humans are so dern smart, we have a much much wider range of body language which have more subtle variations than lower animals can express. So I would say that a smile, while it may look similar to a snarl, is a totally different gesture. What's funny is that while animals can't express such a wide range of emotion, they can read complex gestures. The reading of body language is really the reading of intent, so I'm not surprised that even my Chihuahua can see through a fake smile or a playful snarl. So I'm not sure a smile itself is a meaningful gesture on its own. There's so many minutae that goes along with it. Even your pheromones can betray your intent, so I'm not sure you can look at such gestures in a vacuum.

For example, I greet my friends by flipping them off and saying "Hey Asshole!". Again, my dog interprets this differently then flipping off someone who cut me off in traffic, which he will bark at. It's really funny that even though our body language is so complex that sometimes we as humans can't read it correctly, a dumb animal that eats his own poop can see through someone's body language straight through to their true intent. But yet I'll be standing in line at Starbuck's watching some poor guy hit on the cashier that's totally obviously not interested in the slightest.

It's truly painful to watch people that made it to adulthood without being able to intrepret body language. This goes back to the thread on small talk. Most people successfully read the body language of someone who wants no part in small talk. The "creepy guy" is creepy because he tries to talk to that cute girl on the elevator even though her body language has made it crystal clear that there's zero interest, where the "normal guy" will just think she's a stuck up bitch and not give it further thought.

Smiles are cheap, and all things considered can have a great return on investment! Even people who give off the "don't talk to me" vibe get a smile from me, well, just because.

[Freecare Spiritwise]

Its for the same reasons we consider a handshake a friendly gesture. It is a non-threatening behavior that shows our hands are empty.

Again I would say it's the totality of the gesture - the minutae - that make the gesture non-threatening. I've seen the "creepy guy" extend his hand and people recoil as if he pulled a gun - very awkward. And again, that's why someone can smile and extend their hand in friendship all they want, but if my dog doesn't like them than neither do I.

My theory is that animals can see right through our body language because they don't have the concept of self-deception. People want to believe, need to believe that everyone they meet is genuine, where my dog approaches every encounter with no preconceptions - no baggage.

[Select]

This goes back to the thread on small talk. Most people successfully read the body language of someone who wants no part in small talk. The "creepy guy" is creepy because he tries to talk to that cute girl on the elevator even though her body language has made it crystal clear that there's zero interest, where the "normal guy" will just think she's a stuck up bitch and not give it further thought.

Yes, some don't get it and I've had some friend have to scream at and insult a guy before he finally gets it... But there are plenty of creeps who don't give a shit about your interest either way - it's about their interest.

[Rsak]

Again I would say it's the totality of the gesture - the minutae - that make the gesture non-threatening. I've seen the "creepy guy" extend his hand and people recoil as if he pulled a gun - very awkward.

But you have to consider the historical perspective of how that tradition developed. Two kinds, barons, nobles, etc crossing a battlefield to parlay will advance with hands uncovered and they will shake hands. That is where the tradition began when weapons were more visible then handguns.

If we had handguns back when these traditions got so ingrained then it probably would have been some different gestures.

[Select]

But you have to consider the historical perspective of how that tradition developed. Two kinds, barons, nobles, etc crossing a battlefield to parlay will advance with hands uncovered and they will shake hands. That is where the tradition began when weapons were more visible then handguns.

Ugh - That's not what he was talking about. He was talking about reading the entire body language and the little details, not what the stupid handshake itself means so it doesn't matter what the tradition came from. He's saying that no matter what traditional, singular gesture is used - handshake or your gun fantasy - people read the ENTIRE body to try and gauge a person's intentions.

[Rsak]

Ugh - what you meant to say is "That's now what I think he was talking about".

I will actually wait for Freecare to respond rather then believe your mind reading skills. The thread was dealing with historical/biological perspectives which my comments were restricted to.

[Freecare Spiritwise]

Ugh - what you meant to say is "That's now what I think he was talking about".

I will actually wait for Freecare to respond rather then believe your mind reading skills. The thread was dealing with historical/biological perspectives which my comments were restricted to.

She's right in that I was saying that a handshake, while considered a universal gesture of non-hostile intent is meaningless unless you look past the gesture and try to read a person's true intent.

Even on medival battlefields, where a messenger came unarmed under a peace banner, gestures of non-hostility were greeted with suspicion of treachery.

So I agree that gestures such as handshakes and smiles are meant to convey friendly intent, but often these gestures are false. And if you assume that everyone who gives you a friendly gesture is your friend, then you're probably socially dysfunctional. That's what I was trying to say!

But certainly a friendly smile and hearty handshake are really nice starts to conveying good intent. That's part of our "dance", as is reading a person's intent.

[Rsak]

I disagree that it is meaningless, but that it should not be taken for granted as proof. As you said other things can cause it to be discredited, many of which are from your own state of mind. The dog's reaction mirrors quite a bit from your own and the general knows the reputation of the opposing general and how the war has been fought so far.

[Freecare Spiritwise]

I didn't say it's a meaningless gesture, I said it's a meaningless gesture if only taken at face value.

And I'd say that a handshake is a very meaningful (and powerful) gesture if it's genuine. It says "I'm showing you respect as a peer in front of our other peers".

I spent a couple weeks on my business trip debating this subject because of a co-worker who really means well but puts off some vibe where he comes across as a condescending asshole. He honestly has no idea how he's coming across even though our client (who is my last employer) firmly requested that they have no dealings with him. Part of it is body language/gestures, but part of the overall vibe is hard to pinpoint - folks just feel uneasy around the guy.