Michelle Obama

[superwalrus]

So, Michelle Obama might single handedly destroy her husband's hopes to win the Presidency. For the uninformed, I'm referring to her remarks that "this is the first time in my adult life that I can say I am proud of my country." or something along those lines. Is this woman that stupid? I am pretty sure that you flat out cannot say that if you want to be president (or the person fucking the president). In fact, I even think its like in Chapter 3 of "stupid shit that you just don't say if you want to be President." (chapter 2 is titled "then we're going to wisconsin, then michigan, wraaaaaaaa!") (Chapter 1 is "nukes", see: Goldwater)

I think this is such a bad move because it will give McCain really good cannon fodder. McCain can't touch the race issue because it will make him look bad, and he can't go after Obama's experience because lack of experience is something Obama is actually running on (and I think is a good thing to be running on). But with this? Can you imagine the commercials "I'm John McCain and I've always been proud of my country" etc etc.

So possible arguments: this will have no effect, this will have a minor effect, this will have a huge effect. Anyone?

Walrus

[Lurker]

Here's the full quote for context.

"What we have learned over this year is that hope is making a comeback. It is making a comeback. And let me tell you something -- for the first time in my adult lifetime, I am really proud of my country. And not just because Barack has done well, but because I think people are hungry for change. And I have been desperate to see our country moving in that direction and just not feeling so alone in my frustration and disappointment. I've seen people who are hungry to be unified around some basic common issues, and it's made me proud."

Not that shocking a statement coming from a black woman whos adult life started with the Reagan presidency.

[Rsak]

The only reason she made that statement is because she wasn't looking for things to be proud of before. There have simply been too many actions, decision, and reactions from so many different parties, communities, and international organizations that you are fooling yourself if there hasn't been something that would make you proud.

The statement can be explained, but it is still a stupid remark to make because it is too easily misconstrued or misunderstood even with the full quote and context.

I seriously don't see any lasting harm though. The major media won't give it legs because they like Obama.

[superwalrus]

Lurker: its still a stupid comment regardless of how its "explained"

Rsak: Okay, so no lasting impact, fair enough. Like I siad before, I think it gives McCain good cannon fodder.

Walrus

[Ddrak]

Walrus is right - it's great cannon fodder against a candidate that is going to be hard to find things to play negative about. However, I don't think it will do too much in the long run - Obama is probably going to run a fairly positive campaign and try to make a play on not being a "negative" person. Running attack ads may actually work for him if he does it right.

Dd

[Rsak]

Oh it is absolutely cannon fodder... but fodder doesn't win elections. Its the things that stick that will win the election. Regardless of how stupid the statement was to make (politically) it remains the comments of his wife who is not the one being voted on, especially since this is 8 months away from the election.

If she said it a week before the election... it might have room to run, but this will die out before the conventions. Do we forget how dirty the Bush/McCain primaries were?

[superwalrus]

Fair enough, I think Rsak really hit the nail on the head by pointing out the primaries aren't even over and this will peter out by time the actual election rolls around.

Moving onto a larger subject: this is not the first time Michelle Obama has made the news negatively. Will she overall have a negative effect on her husband's presidential campaign? Lets be honest here, Obama's personage as a nonthreatening african-american isn't hurting him at all, but his wife doesn't have the same uncle tommery aura. She's said some pretty silly things so far this campaign.

Walrus

[Klast Brell]

Both sides have looked for poo to fling at each other from time immemorial. I doubt Michelle Obama will be able to Sink her husband's campaign just by revealing that she has been in agreement with over 50% of it's citizens for the last 30 or 40 years.
A common question in public opinion polls is do you thing things in the country are generally going in the right direction or are they on the wrong track. Wrong track almost always has the majority. I have not been proud of my country for a long time. Abugraib and Guantanamo bay. Enron and Halliburton. Scooter Libby and Larry Craig. Will it kill my chances in office if I confess that we have something to be ashamed of? Will it kill a conservative's chances for office if they said the same things. That Bill Clinton and abortion on demand gay marriage and endless pornography are making them ashamed of their country?

[Rsak]

That is the problem with the statement and how it was made.

If this is the first time you have been proud of your country, then all the other times you were ashamed of the country. That simply is not in agreement with 50% of the citizens for the last 30-40 years. A typical citizen will be able to name instances where the were proud and other times when they were ashamed. Our government system, let alone the world, just simply doesn't provide for a country where someone will be 100% proud or 100% ashamed unless they are completely ignorant of their surroundings.

I can respect someone who says they are not proud of their country right now... but when you say you are never proud of your country... then why are you living there?

[Ddrak]

To be fair, the context of the quote doesn't really say she hasn't been proud of her country in the past, but that the pride she feels this time eclipses previous instances. That makes a lot of sense really - how proud would you be if a quarter of the country wanted your spouse as the next President, and could *anything* compare to that?

Absolute cannon fodder material, but I don't see anything particularly sinister about it when you actually look into it.

Dd

[superwalrus]

oh wow you're an awful person Klast. Just move to Europe already.

Walrus

[Finglefinn]

What she said was akin to playing the race card because her comments could easily be construed as "I've hated this country my whole life," a stereotype commonly associated with blacks and other minorities who are still angry and/or feel oppressed. In that context, her statement will send the patroitic conservatives into a total frenzy as well as leave a bad taste in a number of mouths of Dems who are proud of this country and have been for their whole lives. It's not an end of the world statement, but it is quite insensitive to Americans who are very protective of their patriotism, including a number of Dems.

However, I doubt this is the first time she is "really proud of her country." She was saying it for dramatic effect. I think her statement is simply disingenuous.

[Croinc]

I am proud of this country everytime I go to Circle K. I stand in line behind countless low income citizens who throw their few dollars they have (or have been given by the governemtn) in the Lotto machine.

Oh yeah, btw, I saw this guy asking for money on the street last Friday. Saw him the same night on the quarter slot machine at the Horseshoe.

[Partha]

If this is the first time you have been proud of your country, then all the other times you were ashamed of the country.

I'll take, 'False choice' for $300, Alex.

[Rsak]

Fine.. then all the previous times you were overwhelmed by your apathy. It doesn't change the fact that it was a moronic statement to make when your husband is running for office, regardless of how personally valid.

To be fair, the context of the quote doesn't really say she hasn't been proud of her country in the past, but that the pride she feels this time eclipses previous instances.

I would disagree with this especially since she has clarified to say she meant proud of our country "politically". I understand what she was saying, yet it doesn't change the fact it was still a stupid statement to make. Fortunately it doesn't have the legs to run for true damage to occur. That is the problem with cannon fodder, it is never of true value.

[Partha]

/\
Cannon fodder.

[Trollbait]

Many of you keep using this phrase "cannon fodder".


I don't think it means what you think it means.....


I think you are actually looking for the term "fodder" by itself....or "fodder for political attacks"....or "political fodder"....

[Rsak]

Political fodder certainly includes the subset of cannon fodder.. but I think cannon fodder is the right term since it won't do any lasting harm.

[Kulaf]

Ummm.....no. Cannon fodder has a very specific military reference and is not a subset of anything:

cannon fodder
–noun
soldiers, esp. infantrymen, who run the greatest risk of being wounded or killed in warfare.

I think you are confusing "cannon" and "canon".

[Ddrak]

I think you are actually looking for the term "fodder" by itself....or "fodder for political attacks"....or "political fodder"....

Nah - I meant cannon fodder. Like the infantry of the time, it will be the first thing shot at by the opposing side.

Dd