Blackwater banned from Iraq?

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Ddrak
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Blackwater banned from Iraq?

Post by Ddrak »

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BAGHDAD (AP) -- The Iraqi government said Monday that it was revoking the license of an American security firm accused of involvement in the deaths of eight civilians in a firefight that followed a car bomb explosion near a State Department motorcade.

The Interior Ministry said it would prosecute any foreign contractors found to have used excessive force in the Sunday shooting. It was latest accusation against the U.S.-contracted firms that operate with little or no supervision and are widely disliked by Iraqis who resent their speeding motorcades and forceful behavior.

...

Unlike soldiers, the contrators are not bound by the Uniform Code of Military Justice. Under a special provision secured by American-occupying forces, they are exempt from prosecution by Iraqis for crimes committed there.

Khalaf [Iraqi Interior Ministry], however, denied that the exemption applied to private security companies.
That's a pretty interesting development. If the Iraqi government decides it can prosecute foreign security firms at will under Iraqi law then those security firms will vanish so fast you'll see the skidmarks from the cubicles. Without the private firms, security will essentially end up falling to US troops who already have too much to do, so you may as well pack up shop and leave.

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Klast Brell
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Re: Blackwater banned from Iraq?

Post by Klast Brell »

The US declared in 2004 that mercenary companies are immune from prosecution by Iraqi authorities. Of course this was before the formation of an Iraqi government. If Blackwater stays it will be an assertion that the US, and not the Iraqi people, rule Iraq.
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Re: Blackwater banned from Iraq?

Post by Harlowe »

The 2004 declaration made sense due to there being no government to speak of at that time, but at this point should these security companies be untouchable and immune from any kind of accountability for their actions? How would that make any sense?
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Re: Blackwater banned from Iraq?

Post by Trollbait »

Klast wrote:If Blackwater stays it will be an assertion that the US, and not the Iraqi people, rule Iraq.
What Klast says is exactly true, unless the Iraqi government is not really expelling Blackwater.

On the other hand, if they are expelling Blackwater and Blackwater leaves then that is a very positive sign of the Iraqi government asserting themselves.
Harlowe wrote:but at this point should these security companies be untouchable and immune from any kind of accountability for their actions? How would that make any sense?
They should be accountable to the law of Iraq since they are not accountable to U.S. law and are operating inside Iraq.
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Re: Blackwater banned from Iraq?

Post by Lurker »

Jecks wrote:On the other hand, if they are expelling Blackwater and Blackwater leaves then that is a very positive sign of the Iraqi government asserting themselves.
But it would be a very bad development for the U.S. military and their stated mission. Ddrak nailed it when he said, "Without the private firms, security will essentially end up falling to US troops who already have too much to do, so you may as well pack up shop and leave." Indeed.
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Re: Blackwater banned from Iraq?

Post by Embar Angylwrath »

Lurker wrote:
Jecks wrote:On the other hand, if they are expelling Blackwater and Blackwater leaves then that is a very positive sign of the Iraqi government asserting themselves.
But it would be a very bad development for the U.S. military and their stated mission. Ddrak nailed it when he said, "Without the private firms, security will essentially end up falling to US troops who already have too much to do, so you may as well pack up shop and leave." Indeed.
This thread has become the repository for false dichotomies.
Correction Mr. President, I DID build this, and please give Lurker a hug, we wouldn't want to damage his self-esteem.

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Re: Blackwater banned from Iraq?

Post by Ddrak »

This thread has become the repository for false dichotomies.
I don't see the false dichotomy in my statement. I also agree with everything Jecks and Lurker said. No one is really disagreeing on this thread.

For my statement to be a false dichotomy there would have to be a viable option that allowed forward progress without the US private security firms. I just don't see it - no private security firm is going to be subject to the whims of Sharia and Iraqi law, the US army is not equipped to increase their commitment to level required to replace them, no other army is going to fly in and do it (well, unless you gave that nation all the oil contracts, so you may have something there), and you can't not have security and expect any economic progress which the lack of would ultimately bring down the government and US mission anyway.

Yes - it's good that the Iraqi government is asserting itself if they stick to their guns on this. Yes - it could mean a quicker pullout date because as soon as Iraq figures out they can order the US out of the country the sooner the troops get home. No - I'm not sure it's a good thing in the big picture view, but I could be wrong. I think it's a very unsettling thing is all.

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Re: Blackwater banned from Iraq?

Post by Trollbait »

I do not think Blackwater leaving will leave a Security black hole for two reasons.

1) Blackwater is not the only game in town

and

2) The number of Blackwater security in Iraq would not cause any major strain on the U.S. military should the military have to replace them especially considering the proposed troop reduction.
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Re: Blackwater banned from Iraq?

Post by Ddrak »

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Iraq will review the status of all security companies after this week's "flagrant assault" by contractors from the U.S. firm Blackwater in which 11 people were shot dead, the government said on Tuesday.
Iraq is reviewing the status of all security firms, not just Blackwater. Blackwater so far is the only one to have had their "license" revoked.

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Re: Blackwater banned from Iraq?

Post by Embar Angylwrath »

Dd -

Blackwater leaving Iraq (for whatever reason) doesn't mean the US will cut and run. It doesn't even mean the role Blackwater plays will fall entirely to the military. Here are some other options:

1. New security from the Iraqi population;
2. Re-prioritization of military asset allocation
3. Integration of tribal support for projects that directly affect local tribes (which I think would be great)
4. A whole lot of other options that always emerge in a changing dynamic.

Serioulsy, if Blackwater and other security firms are bounced from Iraq, the momentum will still contiue in the same direction, becuase thats how shit happens. It certainly won't mean the US will just toss up its hands and say "Oh well, we tried, lets go home".
Correction Mr. President, I DID build this, and please give Lurker a hug, we wouldn't want to damage his self-esteem.

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Re: Blackwater banned from Iraq?

Post by Partha »

Most of what Blackwater was doing with their 1k+ troopies in Iraq was private security. That means that a whole lot of important people just lost their bodyguards.

Good work, boyos.
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Re: Blackwater banned from Iraq?

Post by Ddrak »

Embar,

"cut and run" is pretty politically charged, in fact I'd be pretty interested to see any military handbook with the "cut and run" strategy placed in it. What I was suggesting was simply that the role of the US would significantly change given my estimation that the security role played by the 20k+ private security contractors would not be able to be absorbed by the military - especially given that's approximately the number of extra troops the surge brought in which is well acknowledged as unsustainable.

Blackwater itself seems to be primarily employed by the US government to protect military and quasi-military assets. There is absolutely no way that would be entrusted to any Iraqi organization.

Looking through the "options" more closely:
New security from the Iraqi population
Most security is *from* the embedded insurgents within the Iraqi population. Trying to recruit security from the same pool of people you are protecting yourself from is, well, pointless. This act alone would give AQI the ability to strike pretty much whatever they want whenever they wanted. Add that to the fact that no matter what security you hire that is not US military, it will still be subject to Sharia and Iraqi law, the whole equation becomes a lot more unstable.
Re-prioritization of military asset allocation
Exactly what I said originally - the military would have to abandon some of its current posts to protect the things that were originally guarded by these mercs. The number of troops is finite and this sort of job is seriously going to put a squeeze on what they can respond to and how. Hence my argument that you may as well chuck in the military thing and move to something else.
Integration of tribal support for projects that directly affect local tribes (which I think would be great)
It sounds good until you realize that this sort of thing is undercutting the goal of a central unity government. If you're suggesting that Iraqi governance should now be divested of any sort of central control and be meted out to the tribes to deal with as they see fit then you may as well toss the military mission out and forget Baghdad. In fact, this whole suggestion is essentially the re-establishment of localized militias that started the whole sectarian fighting in the first place. When the central government decides to prosecute a tribe when their local militia steps over the line (which is going to happen), can you imagine the consequences? Exactly which side would the US back?

This is the core problem with the "success" in Anbar at the moment - so the tribes are helping agianst a common enemy, sure. Then what?
A whole lot of other options that always emerge in a changing dynamic.
Right, but all the options boil down to less security, less stabilizing forces and less certainty. Sure it's good that the Iraqi government is asserting itself, but I'm not entirely sure this whole thing is going to work out the way the US wants it to.

As for "the momentum will continue in the same direction"... what momentum and what direction?

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Re: Blackwater banned from Iraq?

Post by Finglefinn »

Couple other observations:

1. The vast majrity of private security forces in Iraq are made up of Iraqi citizens.
2. Blackwater employees hold substanitally higher level positions than the Iraqi private security, like Sec. of State Rice's security detail and other important details.
3. Blackwater and other private security organizations, for lack of a better term, "mercs" are under investigation by both the Iraqi government and the US military, as Dd said several posts ago. There have been a number of situations where the private security forces have been in firefights recently with significant civilian casualties and other circumstances accusers are portraying as reckless and lawless behavior. The information on these investigations is cloudy, but has no doubt contributed to the Iraqi government recinding the Blackwater license.
4. If Blackwater mercs are sent home, the bulk of private security will fall on the remaining private organizations, as I stated before, primarily made up of Iraqis. The security of US politicians, or "bodyguards" like Partha said, and others, will then fall on the coalition forces, which probably means that President Bush will issue some kind of an order for their protection in response. Maybe another US based firm will step in and take over?

If the license is permanently gone and Blackwater is expelled, you guys have pretty much covered all the possibilites. I don't think it will be as huge and issue as some people think. In my opinion, the media outlets, bloggers and pundits that are really making this a big story are your average anti-war chest-pounders.
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Re: Blackwater banned from Iraq?

Post by Harlowe »

Looks like they are ordering the US to pull them out

http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/10/ ... index.html
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