Well, who didn't see this one coming...?

[Rsak]

Bahh.. Doublepost.

Besides the supposed supression effects Democrats and Republicians equally.

[Klast Brell]

Most states allow 2 hours off. Of course the individual has to actually know that (as Rsak has demonstrated, this is not common knowledge), and the lines in the polls we are referring to were over 3 hours.
When a republican controlled board reduces the number of voting machines allocated to a heavily democratic precinct with the full knowledge that voter registrations for that precinct have gone UP, that's intentional disenfranchisement.

[davidking]

So this evil thought out plan by the republican co-chair secretary of state thought out the plan to win ohio was to put as little polling stations as possible in african american hotspots so the lines would last till 4 in the morning was an attempt to supress the voters into giving up and going home.

Brilliant! brilliant! Of course with all the proof you have of this happening is blatant and easily found since this happen only so long ago. Something this huge must have paper trails all over the place with memos and notes and people in secret places laughing at what they were doing to the poor black people.

[Partha]

Obviously a great link reader.

[davidking]

Klast.. do you rememebr on voting night when they said voting numbers were up all over the place and people were waiting in lines everywhere?

Could it of been that some of the other areas were also impacted and that those places also saw huge numbers go up in registration? Could it of been several other reasons like they did not estimate correctly how many polling places were going to be overrun.

Could it of been they didn't have enough polling devices ready for the huge turn out that was? could it of been people in the know thought that (with history behind thier thinking) that the majority of the african american/poor middle class were not gonna vote even though they did register?

Do you think maybe.. just maybe.. none of this was a conspirocy? Don't you think the liberals are wasting thier breath on a vote that was COMPLETELY won by the republicans?

[Rsak]

When a republican controlled board reduces the number of voting machines allocated to a heavily democratic precinct with the full knowledge that voter registrations for that precinct have gone UP, that's intentional disenfranchisement.

Funny there were democrats on that board as well.. Where is their vocal outcry?

The news i have been hearing is that they Ohio democrats have looked down on this political grandstanding in Washington because it makes them look just as bad as any of the republicians.

And were this the case the case would have been over already and the board members would be punished or in jail. We continue to have assertions but no proof that disenfrancisement actually happened.

And regardless of whether they only offer 2 hours off or not, that doesn't change the fact that individuals knew there was going to be high turn out from last year. They had other options then to wait till Nov 2nd to vote.

[Relbeek Einre]

Rsak - For one thing, it's unpaid time off. A lot of people can't afford to lose a day's wages.

For another, the law grants 2 hours to vote in most states, including Ohio.

For a third, you may not like the term, but the practice of reducing voter turnout whether through deliberate or incidental action, whether through prevention or discouragement, is collectively called "voter suppression." Too bad if you don't like it, Waterhead.

[Rsak]

Yes Relbeek i know it is unpaid time off, but you are legally entitled to it.

You have failed to state how this makes a difference since there were other options such as numerous days of early voting in which they could have used?

but the practice of reducing voter turnout whether through deliberate or incidental action, whether through prevention or discouragement, is collectively called "voter suppression."

Don't deny this. You have just failed to prove that this has happened in this case and that it targetted Democratic votes over Republicians. Long voting lines does not discriminate in such a way.

[vaulos]

You know, we could solve a good deal of this by making it a national holiday.

[Ddrak]

Or doing it on Saturday.

Dd

[vaulos]

Why destroy a perfectly good saturday?

[Ddrak]

Nobody's forcing you to vote.

Dd

[vaulos]

True. But why not making voting become a celebration, rather than the imposition which it currently is?

[Relbeek Einre]

You have failed to state how this makes a difference since there were other options such as numerous days of early voting in which they could have used?

Yeah, because when you show up at the polls and discover the 10 hour line, you can go back in time and use an absentee ballot. (As an aside, was early voting an option in Ohio?)

Once again Rsak, voter suppression did take place, people were discouraged or prevented by the long lines and at least alleged to have been prevented by illegal disenfranchisement. Only your stubborn inability to admit your opposition has a valid point, no matter how obvious it is, is keeping you from seeing it.

[Riggen]

Ddrak, What I mean to say is you never have to encrypt the SS # itself. The SS # merely gets used as a login. I'm sorry, I don't think I communicated that properly. What if said encryption system relied on selecting id codes to encrypt from a much larger pool of numbers? Say, numbers generated during a voter registration process? With the key linking the ID code to the SS number held only by the voter in question for login purposes? For simplicity, store the key on an encrypted smart card or some equivalent. Once the vote is cast, automatically destroy the key. Voila, you now have a uniquely signed vote that cannot be traced back to any particular voter, not even by the very voter who cast it.

The upshot is that I think there's a way to make voting very much like using an ATM without compromising secrecy. This idea is something that took all of 10 seconds to conceptualize. There may well be holes in it but the intent is to modernize the mechanism that voters must interact with rather than to stop every possible form of fraud. That alone I think is a worthy goal, and if someone (or a bunch of someones) were paid to make such a system workable I'm confident it could be done.

[davidking]

What valid point? besides the fact that someone didn't estimate how many people were gonna show up at the polls.. not this huge conspirocy theroy that the republican secretary of state blindfolded all the democrats in the committee about how many polls there were gona be at a certain polling venue.

Just stupid..

[yutsano]

True. But why not making voting become a celebration, rather than the imposition which it currently is?

I think Anna Quindlen made an argument for this in a Newsweek column.

[Rsak]

Once again Rsak, voter suppression did take place, people were discouraged or prevented by the long lines and at least alleged to have been prevented by illegal disenfranchisement. Only your stubborn inability to admit your opposition has a valid point, no matter how obvious it is, is keeping you from seeing it.

And that is why i stated i did not deny that long lines was voter suppression?

Funny i already acknowledged that point. What i do not acknowledge is that just because long lines happened that it is evidence of a conspiracy to disenfrancise democratic voters.

It could have been due to voter machines being allocated before a surge of last minute registration. It could have been due to break down in machines or running out of ballots. It could have been the delay of provisional ballots being cast in these districts. It could have been any number of things that do not involve a conspiracy and illegal actions.

You have yet to provide any actual evidence that your conclusion that it was an illegal action that caused these problems is the correct one.

All i am asking for is some bloody proof.

[Relbeek Einre]

Funny i already acknowledged that point. What i do not acknowledge is that just because long lines happened that it is evidence of a conspiracy to disenfrancise democratic voters.

You actually said that I failed to prove that voter suppression happened in this instance:

It most certainly is evidence of a conspiracy to disenfranchise Democratic voters. Particularly since the bulk of the long lines happened in primarily urban/minority districts. However, it is not proof, and I acknowledged that several times in this thread and elsewhere.

Which brings me back to the central point. These events should be thoroughly investigated and the problems, regardless of the cause, should be remedied. But the Republicans in Congress seem highly resistant to that notion, as their rhetoric on the floor yesterday, and their mouthpieces in the media during and since that time, seem to indicate.

[davidking]

It most certainly is evidence of a conspiracy to disenfranchise Democratic voters. Particularly since the bulk of the long lines happened in primarily urban/minority districts. However, it is not proof, and I acknowledged that several times in this thread and elsewhere.

Funny how you say one thing then say another in one breath of a sentance.

These events should be thoroughly investigated and the problems, regardless of the cause, should be remedied

Shouldn't this be checked in every state also to see if it happened anywhere else? Why so fixated in Ohio? Other states had the same issues.

It's just sore pussies on the part of the liberals. Let it die you already lost.[/b]