Zimmerman

[Embar Angylwrath]

Whatever my initial gut reaction to hearing his phone call and about his history was, my sentiment became and continues to be ....

We should care that a teenager was shot and killed by an adult, even if there was an altercation, you don't get to just kill people that look suspicious. We should want people that kill others and claim self-defense to still go through the system and have their guilt or innocence determined. We can't have people just getting into fights and then shooting each other and in this case an adult shot a minor.

Other than wanting someone to answer for shooting a kid, I have no emotional interest in the outcome. If he's guilty, I want him to be punished like anyone else that commits manslaughter or whatever sticks. If he's innocent or they can't prove one way or the other, he can live with killing a teenager for reasons perhaps only he will know.

Criminal cases don't interest me, they mostly just depress me and I'm not going to get a stiffy pouring over blogs about one side or the other.

That is still an emotional response to facts not proven. I understand your emotional response, I just thank god our justice system isn't driven by it, although our media seems to know how to tap into and manipulate people like you.

Criminal cases DO interest you, otherwise you wouldn't have posted here. You wouldn't have weighed in on the topic and been so biased against Zimmerman. You pre-suppose that just because Martin is 17, he some god-given right to life. Not saying this is the way things went down, but its certainly a possibility, and possibility that the evidence is starting to support, but maybe Martin started the physical altercation. I wonder what emotional position you would take if a 17 year old beat to death a 28 year old?

Age has nothing to do with it, nor does race. Focusing on that does nothing, and actually disrespects the death of Martin. When does it become more ok to kill someone becasue of age? Is the death of a 17year old any more signifiacnt than the death of a 16 year old or an 18 year old?

And maybe you should pay attention to your initial reaction, where you painted Zimmerman as some loathesome, deranged individual. If you were in Zimmermans shoes, would you want that?

[Harlowe]

No it doesn't interest me. People weigh in on many topics that really don't interest them. It was national news you started a thread, people speculated. Crime stories aren't my thing

I would anticipate a great deal of judgment fair and otherwise if I were to kill someone and it made the national news.

[Embar Angylwrath]

No it doesn't interest me. People weigh in on many topics that really don't interest them. It was national news you started a thread, people speculated. Crime stories aren't my thing

I would anticipate a great deal of judgment fair and otherwise if I were to kill someone and it made the national news.

But you would kill them in a fair and impartial manner, keeping an open mind...

[Harlowe]

No idea what you are going on about and I have no interest in your pissing contest.

[Ddrak]

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[Embar Angylwrath]

@Harlowe -

Just keeping you honest. You came in this thread breathing fire and claiming my post was somehow just another parroting of some right wing news station (funny whne you guys do that, since I don't watch Fox), and almost calling for Zimmerman's head on a pike... while simultanously claiming you're impartial and want to wait for the facts.

Convict now, facts later... that was your attitude in short.

Now that its coming out that maybe Zimmerman's story is closer to the truth than what some would like to beleive, now you're disinterested. Just kinda sounds like a stamping of feet, and taking your ball home.

[Jarochai Alabaster]

I didn't see anyone say "convict now," but I may have missed it and I'm not about to read back through the thread. Quote please?

[Embar Angylwrath]

I''m not going to go back for you. You have to break that leftist sense that people will do things for you simply because you're too lazy to do it yourself. You won't have to look hard. Harlowe, even though she apparently doesn't follow crime stories, calls Zimmerman "guilty as hell". In her mind, she had already convicted the guy. I think what got him convicted in her mind was that Fox was apparently defending him. How she knew that, I don't know, because she stated she doens't follow crime stories. So maybe a friend told her that was what Fox was airing, and she convicted him on that basis.

[Jarochai Alabaster]

You're a fucking nutjob. I'm not displaying any "leftist blah blah do shit for me." You made a claim. If you're unwilling to substantiate your claim, I'll call you out as the liar you are. And you are lying. I have not seen what you claim to have read in this thread - and I have looked. Prove me wrong, or admit by silence that you're lying.

Literally no one in this thread said Zimmerman is guilty. What was said is that given the available evidence, he looks guilty. If you can't tell the difference, that's your problem. Once again, you've only proven how incredibly adept you are at reading one thing and interpreting something entirely different.

[Fallakin Kuvari]

It will be interesting to see what they have. He looks guilty as hell, but I just want justice to prevail no matter what that is.

[Jarochai Alabaster]

Literally no one in this thread said Zimmerman is guilty. What was said is that given the available evidence, he looks guilty. If you can't tell the difference, that's your problem.

[Harlowe]

I'm doing my best to ignore your bullshit and not get pulled into your Zimmerman wank-fest. But you're getting ridiculous.

Embar, either you're either a pathological liar or ...you're in the bell jar. I said no such thing. If anyone needs to be kept honest, it's apparently you and Fallakin.

Since you equate silence with admission, I said something, but I am now going back to ignoring your ridiculous, childish foot stomping.

[Harlowe]

To reiterate - these still apply as my opinion.

We should care that a teenager was shot and killed by an adult, even if there was an altercation, you don't get to just kill people that look suspicious. We should want people that kill others and claim self-defense to still go through the system and have their guilt or innocence determined. We can't have people just getting into fights and then shooting each other and in this case an adult shot a minor.

Other than wanting someone to answer for shooting a kid, I have no emotional interest in the outcome. If he's guilty, I want him to be punished like anyone else that commits manslaughter or whatever sticks. If he's innocent or they can't prove one way or the other, he can live with killing a teenager for reasons perhaps only he will know.

Criminal cases don't interest me, they mostly just depress me and I'm not going to get a stiffy pouring over blogs about one side or the other.

Criminal cases do not interest me, because they are depressing. There is enough of that in the rest of the news, that I don't want to get bogged down in all the shitty, violent things that go on, so these cases will continue to not interest me. I didn't post this thread, I don't have boner for this case. He's been charged, he'll answer for the charge, and what the outcome is makes no difference to me at this point. My only interest is that someone killing another person, will have to answer for it. Not will have to PAY FOR IT, but answer for it. Period.

[Embar Angylwrath]

More politicization of Trayvon Martin...

http://www.washingtontimes.com/blog/ins ... amendment/

No different than seatbelts???? Didn't know not buckling your seatbelt could get your daughter raped or your house robbed. Who knew?

Also kind of ironic that DC has the strictest gun control laws and the highest deaths per capita from firearms. And to my knowledge, I thought gun deaths were dropping over the last few years (excpet DC) even as more states allowed relaxed restrictions on the carrying of a firearm.

[Torakus]

I think Florida should pass a law that ejects the IRS from Florida and makes paying federal taxes optional for Florida residents. =) Why is that every twat in Congress that doesn't get their way in a States rights issue, wants to hold Federal funds to the States hostage. Makes me want to slap the shit out of them.

[Ddrak]

Didn't know not buckling your seatbelt could get your daughter raped or your house robbed. Who knew?

There is no significant effect on stand-your-ground laws in this manner. In fact, there's no significant correlation between gun laws and gun crime, let alone gun laws and other violent crime. Even if there *were* correlation, correlation is not causality. We've been through this.

Of course, I do agree that writing laws over a single incident is blatantly stupid.

Dd

[Embar Angylwrath]

And that pretty much sums up why gun control laws are overblown. As you said, no correlation, no causality. In other words.. no "smoking gun".

[Ddrak]

And that pretty much sums up why gun control laws are overblown. As you said, no correlation, no causality. In other words.. no "smoking gun".

In an argument on criminal behavior, absolutely.

Dd

[Embar Angylwrath]

State's evidence released. WOW! While not completely exculpatory, the evidence clearly is in Zimmerman's favor, and not the State's. Nothing in the evidence released contradicts Zimmerman's story. Most of the evidence supports it. Couple of bombshells... eyewitness saw a black male in a dark hoodie on top of a white or hispanic male striking him repeatedly with MMA-type blows. Matrin's father reportedly denied the voice in the 911 recording screaming for help was that of his sons. Eyewitness report saying it was Zimmerman yelling for help. Gun disharge estimated between 1 and 18 inches from deaceased. Good photos of Zimmerman's injuries. Medical report of Zimmerman's injuries, including a decent couple of cuts on the back of his head, a broken nose and a couple of black eyes.

As to character for the both of them:

Martin was staying at the residence becuase he was suspended from school on a drug posession policy violation. He also had THC in his blood and urine at time of death. I think this would make him look less sympathetic in the eyes of a jury.

There are official publications from the HOA stating that Zimmerman was working with police on behalf of the HOA because of the rash of recent burglaries, and that if any resident saw something suspicious, the newsletter instrcuted them to call Zimmerman and the police. So much for the "self-appointed wannabe cop" narrative.

My oh my, how the picture is changing from crazed and dangerous asshole to... well shit, maybe Martin WAS the agressor and Zimmerman was justified.

[Ddrak]

I really don't think much has changed at all.

THC is pointless and won't really color a jury - defense will correctly make this a joke given dope doesn't make anyone I know aggressive.

The eyewitness saying Martin was on top just counters another one that claims "the heavier man" was on time, indicating Zimmerman.

The eyewitness claiming Zimmerman was yelling for help is the same one that claimed Martin was on top, and later said he couldn't see who was actually yelling and just assumed it was the one on the bottom.

Eyewitnesses all crumble under cross-examination in any case. They're the worst evidence.

FBI correctly states that no one could recognize the voice so father's claims are pretty much neutralized.

Hard to say Martin was an aggressor when his GF testified that he was telling someone to "get off him" on the phone, which completely neutralizes any self-defence claim (can't claim self-defence when you are the initial aggressor) and reinforces the "Zimmerman started it" theory.

All runs in with idea that Zimmerman accosted Martin in a fairly tame manner, the pair got into a scuffle which escalated into Martin being shot when they fought over the gun. Would be a straight up manslaughter (imo). M2 is probably overreaching (as we've all said before).

Dd