Clan Ascension Jumps Fear raid

Harlowe · Post by **Harlowe** » Mon Apr 21, 2003 9:22 am

I lost track of how many times the golems and/or shissar were taken out on our raid day or the evening before and NOT by the raid that was there prior. /shrug It's just all about timing and luck. Nothing to get upset about.

Edyil Crossfire · Post by **Edyil Crossfire** » Mon Apr 21, 2003 9:26 am

Then we would have been happy for LotS and would have done our Raid as planned. Had we not had Hate Friday night, we would have gone with them to help them clear the mobs as they are friends of ours. As it happened, folks because discouraged and camped out when they heard someone had gone in before us and cleared everything out. So the raid was canceled, basically due to lack of enthusiasm.

But if we know that each and every time we schedule Fear that someone will go in before us to clear anything thats interesting, we wouldnt sign up any longer. If the guild before us happens to be lucky enough to ge the mobs and have a good time, we congratulate them.

As it stands now, we will keep scheduling and hope we get lucky... and hope that asshats dont slither in there before us.

Edyil Crossfire · Post by **Edyil Crossfire** » Mon Apr 21, 2003 9:29 am

You don't think that people can't do that with other zones?

Obviously not as is the point of this thread.

Jadelin Iceheart · Post by **Jadelin Iceheart** » Mon Apr 21, 2003 9:32 am

Yet your solution, keep the reservations in place, isn't working for you either. Bad example too, you have no idea if the guild that had reserved the plane could have gotten their epic mobs before hand if there was no reservation system and they had a chance at the epic mobs days, weeks or months ago. Thus truly making that point moot.

writher · Post by **writher** » Mon Apr 21, 2003 9:32 am

If we have a force ready to go but I notice on the boards that someone has posted LFmore for Royals, we would respect their implied meaning - they are reserving them.

From the rules:

This board is only for use to find more raiders for a raid. It is NOT a place to post intentions of any sort in a round about way to try and reserve a mob/zone.

Edyil Crossfire · Post by **Edyil Crossfire** » Mon Apr 21, 2003 9:36 am

Yet your solution, keep the reservations in place, isn't working for you either

True but we have to think of others and not just ourselves. So I still support the system. It might not be working for me right now, but that doesnt mean it should be abolished. Others are making good use of it and we will keep trying.

Harlowe · Post by **Harlowe** » Mon Apr 21, 2003 9:41 am

If a raid is there and ready to go, that's super let them have at it...but using LFM as some sort of reservation on mobs isn't going to happen. Half those "lfm" raids never take place.

That's like expecting every guild to post their scheduled raids under LFM. That's not happening nor should they have to in order to plan a raid somewhere.

You plan it, you hope it's open when you get there. If it is, wonderful, if not, you choose another target. That's all anyone should expect. Coming in and whining about "Hey OMG I had an LFM raid scheduled you can't raid that!!" is just childish.

Jadelin Iceheart · Post by **Jadelin Iceheart** » Mon Apr 21, 2003 9:44 am

-laugh- So we have to support a system that doesn't work because if it wasn't there, no one would have the decency to think of other people? This upcoming harshness isn't sincere, but more to prove a point. Fuck you for thinking that everyone is an entitlement whore lurking in the shadows waiting to snatch up your precious mobs, which clearly you deserve more because you have less time to devote to the game, because of course, only power gamers are able to get the mobs they need for their epic pieces when a mob is FCFS.

Talaena · Post by **Talaena** » Mon Apr 21, 2003 9:59 am

It's too bad FCFS means different things to different folk.

Some feel being first is:

- /oocing "We're taking <mob> in 15 minutes"

- Forming groups at the zoneline

- Finishing buffs at the zoneline and moving in

- Engaging the mob(s) that are between the <mob>

- Engaging the <mob> itself

- Killing the <mob>

- Handing out loot from <mob>

Where issues arise is when groups/raids clash who don't fit in the same description of FCFS. Actually, I suppose it's more of a problem when the "first" group is higher on the list above than the 2nd group.

If you think just being in the zone is "First", and the 2nd gorup to show up won't back off until you are engaging the mob directly, then you have a problem.

If it's the other way around, and the '2nd' group to arrive thinks it's simply a presence needed to be first, they'd zone in, see group #1 in the zone, and leave.

This was especially prevelant during solb Ragefire days. When people thought engaging FGs was "first", but others wouldn't back off until they hand turned in pearl or even so far as to be fighting the Dragon Rage, ignoring the Pearl turnin.

Eoralsolis · Post by **Eoralsolis** » Mon Apr 21, 2003 10:00 am

LFM is an interesting forum. A very usueful place for people to find some more folks to have a good time. But it is not a reservation. There is no implication of a reservation. And those who want to treat it as any type of reservation are destined to be disappointed by the community that will not, now or ever, treat it as a reservation.

Eoral

Edyil Crossfire · Post by **Edyil Crossfire** » Mon Apr 21, 2003 10:01 am

Not everyone. As I said, most folks respect others intentions. There are select few that dont give a shit though. Those are the entitlement whores. Or, since you dont like that term for this instance, assholes. Some folks (guilds) have consideration for others and some dont. AC doesnt. Ddrak doesnt give a shit about anyones intentions if he can get there first. He posted that countless times on the old threads (on the old boards). He is more than willing to walk over anyone to get what he feels he deserves. Hence is unwilling participation in my posts.

Harlowe, like it or not, thats what that section has been used for for years now. And there are been a ton of rants on that very subject - someone posting LFM, getting jumped and then bitching about it. Vast Empire and Blood Inferno come to mind as just one example (remember when Minute would post 3 days straight and demand folks respect the LFM). Nothings changed. Folks still respect the intent. Well, some do.

Barious · Post by **Barious** » Mon Apr 21, 2003 10:27 am

Actually we killed one of the named treants last night in Growth with a 65 Monk, 65 Shaman, 65 Necro and a 62 Druid. Was messy, sloppy and a very long fight, but we pulled it off. He dropped a mage robe.

-Barious

Post by **Ddrak** » Mon Apr 21, 2003 10:31 am

Edyil,

You still don't understand the meaning of "entitlement". Tell me how I am claiming I am "entitled" to anything? Tell me how the attitude that every mob is fair game until someone shows up with a force to take it is in any way "entitlement". Your problem is you simply don't understand how FCFS works so you just bash it and call it names that contradict the very foundation of the system.

Earning a mob is indeed having the knowledge to take a mob down and do so successfully - you know, just like Clan Ascension did and you didn't. In case you didn't notice, you weren't successful because CA was *before* you. What right do you have to dictate to anyone else to leave mobs up for your own personal looting? You are NOT entitled to that mob and it's not because of PnP, it's for the same reason people claiming a camp from the zone line don't really have claim to the camp.

Basically you are ranting because YOU didn't get what YOU want. Well, poor little you. You got beaten by someone better? Go cry to momma. Because of the 12 hour spawn time on armor mobs you can still abuse your precious reservation system to "claim" epic mobs about half the time. Obviously that's not good enough for you though and you need to do it all the time. Sit back and ask yourself who's claiming the "entitlement" here. You wanna use big bad words like "entitlement whore" but can't see that they apply to you more than anyone else.

The funny thing is that you think you were "fucked over" because someone took a spawn. Explain to me exactly how you were "fucked over"? Do you honestly think you were entitled to the golems? What right do you have to tell someone to not kill a mob because you want it for your personal looting?

Oh, and when have I ever oppressed you, Edyil? When have I ever explicitly done ANYTHING that would prevent you from doing anything in the game? In fact when have I ever done that to ANYONE in the game? The only person I see here wanting to stop people from having the freedom to do what they like is YOU. The fact is FCFS is a system based on respect between guilds. That's why it works. When you have contention for a spawn then the raid leaders work it out between themselves. It's not about fucking people over, it's about the people who work hardest for a mob are the ones that get to loot it.

Stop crying that somehow having a full time job makes you different. This may come as a shock to you but most of the people in my guild (including myself) work 50+ hours a week and yet we still manage to survive without having to block everyone else with our l33t reserving skills. Your petty little whine about "keeping rangers permacamped" is just naive, as is your entire rant.

FCFS is about respect, not about "walking over peopole". Deal with it and stop your whiney bullshit. Your attempt to claim an epic mob from some Shaman who needed it and was more prepared than you failed. Cope with it already.

Dd

Harlowe · Post by **Harlowe** » Mon Apr 21, 2003 10:32 am

LFM isn't a reservation and has never been treated as such. Thinking you own a mob because you post there is bullshit. A guild can plan a raid well in advance of an LFM raid, are you saying a guild then has to change their plans because LFM raids take precedence. Bull.

Edyil Crossfire · Post by **Edyil Crossfire** » Mon Apr 21, 2003 10:35 am

Dd, will read and comprehend later... gotta go.

Harlowe, I know its not in the rules. Folks still use it that way. /shrug I will respect that if thats how they are using it. Gives more folks a shot at what they need.

Krozzon · Post by **Krozzon** » Mon Apr 21, 2003 10:41 am

Imo its time to remove reservations all together.. Hell if need be ill lead the charge on Brell boards for a vote..

Rsak · Post by **Rsak** » Mon Apr 21, 2003 10:43 am

To answer your question Ddrak, think of a world where people work and have lives and do not have a full day to devote to the game. When they try to take out a named mob from what ever zone and it is always down because a certain group of people are always killing it and know the spawn time for the next and are always there to kill it again. They are effectively hogging the mob and feel they are entitled to the mob and should not share it because they figured out how to kill it and know when it spawns.

That would be an abuse of the FCFS system just as some ways that reservation systems can be abused.

It is selfish behavior which is where the entitlement notions come from because that is our buzz word for the topic.

The problem however is this notion that because someone beat you to a spawn they are better then others. That is simply not true and is where all this animosity comes from about oppression. Just because someone has more time to play does in no way make them a better player or person. Your condescending tone where half of these fights originate and your tangents into people beating others because they were better is just a load of crap.

Reservations however can be about just as much respect as you claim FCFS is.

Jadelin Iceheart · Post by **Jadelin Iceheart** » Mon Apr 21, 2003 10:52 am

Actually I think FCFS can be about greater respect than reservations. If you have to police yourself instead of letting reservations do it for you, your true character is going to come to surface.

And Mmm, Dd. /purr

Lisset · Post by **Lisset** » Mon Apr 21, 2003 10:57 am

That would be an abuse of the FCFS system just as some ways that reservation systems can be abused.

FCFS isn't a system. It's simply "the way things are". You can't abuse FCFS unless you're actually violating "Play Nice".

You have a problem with the same guild killing a mob over and over? Get there first. It's not that hard. It's a challenge, but it's not that tough. Do some fucking research. Spawn times are known quantities.

Also, let me encourage you to find something else to do when mobs are down.

My guild raids 4 hours a night, 5 nights a week. We raid for 4 hours, period. Lots of things aren't up when we want to raid. We find things to raid. I realize that our targets are higher than you likely would go after, but there are plenty of things to kill.

Let me explain how a typical FFA day would go (we have enforced reservations, but sometimes our mobs are not up anyway).

Guild leader sends out the trackers to report by 7:30. Some of us have tracker alts, some mobs can be tracked with Bind Sight. On a typical night, we check most of the following mobs:

Blood/Emperor
High Priest in Ssra
Arch Lich in ssra
Rhag 1 & 2 (gotta have GRC spells

)
Cursed
XTC
Statue & Avatar of War
Agnarr
Behemoth (in PoI)
Terris Thule
Baby Zeks
Grummus & friends (still have some new guildies needing flags)
HoH trials
Aeryn`Dar
Itraer Vius
Shei
HP Ultor
Burrower Parasite

and so on and so on.

Do we go to our server message boards and whine because Europa once again took all the good fucking mobs from Ssra? no! We do that in private.

My point is, find shit to kill, don't expect anyone to leave shit up for you.

Post by **Ddrak** » Mon Apr 21, 2003 10:58 am

Edyil,

I should add that I know the pain and frustration of being beaten to a mob very well. Has happened to us plenty of times. Can't count the number of times in the last few months that Sojo has beaten us to Cursed or Errants to Emp. It's a pain I'm quite familiar with but not one that I'll willingly push out into the world to demand that we be given a "shot" at a mob when someone who has worked at least as hard as I have has arrived before me.

Rsak,

I don't have to "think" of that world. Most of my guild (including me) have full time jobs. It's why Sony have the named mobs on a semi-random spawn timer and the non-random ones are rarely on a even 24 hour margin. So, as usual, your strawman has very little to do with the situation at hand - being away until 2am (PST) on a Saturday (when the golems were killed) is hardly a stretch even for someone with full time employment.

Just because I say FCFS is about respect doesn't mean reservations can't be about it too. I just have to be suspicious of someone claiming to "respect" reservations when they are clearly using them to block access to a non-reserved mob/spawn.

Jade,

/grin. /spank.

Dd