Palin as Republican VEEP

[Ddrak]

Looks like Palin's doing some more lying about Troopergate:

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=5844710&page=1

The McCain-Palin campaign echoed the charge in a press release it distributed Monday, concurrent with Palin's legal filing. "Mr. Monegan persisted in planning to make the unauthorized lobbying trip to D.C.," the release stated.

But the governor's staff authorized the trip, according to an internal travel document from the Department of Public Safety, released Friday in response to an open records request.

Dd

[Kulaf]

And since that funding isn't enough and States rely on Federal money, are you advocating an increase in property taxes or the gutting of schools, police, fire, hospitals, and infrastructure? Are you advocating we abandon poorer areas?

The idiotic policy proposals you support have consequences.

I have always.....and will always.....advocate State tax increases over Federal tax increases. You want to live in a state with asstastic roads and bridges and low taxes....so be it. Want to live in a state that has excellent roads and bridges and give out free homes to the homeless and feeds stray puppies and pays out the ass in taxes......so be it.

The Federal government should only be concerned with infrastructure projects that promote interstate commerce.....i.e. interstate highways, railways and airports.

[Embar Angylwrath]

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/23/ ... index.html

Interesting article on Obama 's and Biden's support for the "Bridge to Nowhere". Also, an inside ppek into all the earmarks Biden secured for his state. He seems to be condemning the "Bridge to Nowhere" earmark (even though he voted for it), while defending his own, equally unnecessary earmarks.

That will come back to bite him in the debates. He won't be able to even touch on the Bridge to Nowhere without Palin tossing it right back in his, and Obama's lap. And he's made so many misstatements I think Palin will chew him up in a debate.

[Lurker]

We've been over this and over this. It's not the bridge or the money that's the issue, it's Palin/McCain's shameless lying about historical facts.

As for Biden and earmarks, as pointed out by Ddrak he's got a great record according to the CAGW site. He averages 25 million a year for his entire state.

The CNN article also gets some basic facts wrong. The final transportation bill didn't contain an earmark for the bridge since that had been removed in late 2005. It contained general money to the state, but not earmarked for the bridge. Which brings us to a larger point. An earmark is Congress directing how the money is to be spent. Earmarks do not necessarily represent increased government spending since the money is usually sent to the states anyways.

You sure have a high opinion of Palin. What are you basing that on?

[Klast Brell]

Biden took a bite from a shit sandwich.
Palin ordered one without a bun.

[Embar Angylwrath]

We've been over this and over this. It's not the bridge or the money that's the issue, it's Palin/McCain's shameless lying about historical facts.

As for Biden and earmarks, as pointed out by Ddrak he's got a great record according to the CAGW site. He averages 25 million a year for his entire state.

The CNN article also gets some basic facts wrong. The final transportation bill didn't contain an earmark for the bridge since that had been removed in late 2005. It contained general money to the state, but not earmarked for the bridge. Which brings us to a larger point. An earmark is Congress directing how the money is to be spent. Earmarks do not necessarily represent increased government spending since the money is usually sent to the states anyways.

You sure have a high opinion of Palin. What are you basing that on?

Where do you get that I have a high opinion of Palin? My opinion of her is low. However, my opinion doesn't matter in my analysis that I think she'll be to effectively thwart a lot of what Biden throws at her in a debate. I think Biden and Obama have opened themselves up to attack on indefensible fronts, and that has nothing to do with what Palin did or didn't do. It's what keeps falling out of Biden's mouth.

[Harlowe]

Biden will have even less to do with this election than Palin. That's the beauty of the public not really giving a crap about you.

Palin and her repeated lies, extremism, hiding from the press (probably more McCain's doing than her own) and Troopergate are by far going to have more of an effect than Biden the walking Gaffe dispenser that the public is just not interested in.

[Embar Angylwrath]

Biden will have even less to do with this election than Palin. That's the beauty of the public not really giving a crap about you.

Palin and her repeated lies, extremism, hiding from the press (probably more McCain's doing than her own) and Troopergate are by far going to have more of an effect than Biden the walking Gaffe dispenser that the public is just not interested in.

I dunno Harlowe. A lot of the crap flying around is that she isn't ready to step in a Commander in Chief. If she shows in a debate that she can handle a long time insider, and makes mincemeat out of him, she'll go a long way towards negating that particular criticism by showing she's better than the person the Democrats are putting out there as the face of experience. If she is somehow able to show that with all the experience Biden has, she's still better than him, she'll nullify two critical points of the Obama campaign... Biden's experience, and implications that she can't handle herself in the big game.

Again, this isn't so much about Palin, as it is Biden. Biden will have to tread carefully in a debate, and not expose himself too much. If he gets too agressive, which is what I think the Republicans are counting on, he'll blow it.

[Lurker]

A lot of the crap flying around is that she isn't ready to step in a Commander in Chief.

She isn't ready to be Commander in Chief and she's morally unfit for the office. Memorizing sound bites for a debate isn't going to change that.

[Embar Angylwrath]

A lot of the crap flying around is that she isn't ready to step in a Commander in Chief.

She isn't ready to be Commander in Chief and she's morally unfit for the office. Memorizing sound bites for a debate isn't going to change that.

I guess you're just not seeing this. Doesn't matter what you think of her personally. What matters is the effect of the debates on her popularity, and her ability to gather confidence in the American people. If Biden helps her do that (and I think he will, he doesn't know when to shut the fuck up), it won't matter one bit if she eats babies in the morning. If Biden helps her get a bump in the polls, he'll only have himself to blame.

[Lurker]

Whatever happens in the debate, you will see it as a victory for Palin. Of that I'm certain. You will continue to either defend her directly or defend her indirectly by attacking Obama / Biden. The fact that she's an extremist and a shameless liar who would be dangerous to our country is meaningless to you. You can pretend you are just having a generic discussion about strategy and perception, but the sad fact is you hope her popularity goes up.

[Harlowe]

You have been acting a bit like an indirect apologist for Palin. Whether she comes off decently or not in the debates really isn't going to matter, because most of the base is solid within both camps and the undecideds aren't going to be moved by a single debate. IIRC even the presidential debates have historically only effected the polls by <2%.

[Embar Angylwrath]

You have been acting a bit like an indirect apologist for Palin. Whether she comes off decently or not in the debates really isn't going to matter, because most of the base is solid within both camps and the undecideds aren't going to be moved by a single debate. IIRC even the presidential debates have historically only effected the polls by <2%.

Sorry you see it that way. I don't feel I'm being an apologist for Palin. What I feel I'm doing is evaluating her effect on the campaign, good and bad.

Also, I hope you recognize that this election is much much different than any election previously held. A black guy and a woman on the tickets. Surely you see there will be a new equation in the selection of the President. How much is Obama going to suffer from people claiming they support him, so as not to look racists, but then bailing out when its actual vote time? How much will the white women vote count for McCain vis a vis Palin?

There are several new dimensions in this race. What I'm attempting to do is evaluate the strengths and weaknesses of each ticket, and how developing circumstances in the race affect each sides chances of winning. When the press finally (and continually) talk about Palin's stances on the Bridge to Nowhere, I thought for sure there would be an extreme reversal in the polls. Didn't happen. Why didn't it happen? Why does her popularity increase with key demographic segments despite the truth coming out?

The election is just a few weeks away. Me.. I'm not voting for either ticket. My vote will be a protest vote, as I don't like either side too much. Neither side is the answer America needs. But America is going to get what it deserves.

[Lurker]

When the press finally (and continually) talk about Palin's stances on the Bridge to Nowhere, I thought for sure there would be an extreme reversal in the polls. Didn't happen. Why didn't it happen? Why does her popularity increase with key demographic segments despite the truth coming out?

Do any facts penetrate into that fantasy world you've created? On what planet is Palin's popularity increasing with "key demographic segments"? Her favorability rating is tanking with every group McCain needed her to do well with. The more people know about her the less they like her.

And you aren't fooling anyone with your bullshit about just doing a clinical analysis of the race.

[Ddrak]

Palin doesn't matter any more. It's about Obama/McCain again, and the economy.

Dd

[Embar Angylwrath]

When the press finally (and continually) talk about Palin's stances on the Bridge to Nowhere, I thought for sure there would be an extreme reversal in the polls. Didn't happen. Why didn't it happen? Why does her popularity increase with key demographic segments despite the truth coming out?

Do any facts penetrate into that fantasy world you've created? On what planet is Palin's popularity increasing with "key demographic segments"? Her favorability rating is tanking with every group McCain needed her to do well with. The more people know about her the less they like her.

And you aren't fooling anyone with your bullshit about just doing a clinical analysis of the race.

White women. A demographic that the Dems rreally need.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7617411.stm

Swing in the white support of white women towards McCain. Note, these aren't my numbers, and they are certinaly not from some pro-Palin hack site.

ABC/Washington Post: 7 Sept - 53% for McCain, 41% for Obama (20 point swing to McCain since 22 Aug)
NBC/Wall Street Journal: 9 Sept - 52% for McCain, 41% for Obama (11 point swing to McCain since Aug)
Quinnipiac University: 9 Sept - Pennsylvania, 5 point swing to McCain since 26 Aug; Ohio, four point swing to McCain since 26 Aug; Florida, two point swing to Obama since 26 Aug

[Embar Angylwrath]

Palin doesn't matter any more. It's about Obama/McCain again, and the economy.

Dd

She may not matter to YOU.. but its obvious she still has play with a large segment of America. As long as she has play, she can affect the outcome of the election. Do you disagree with that statement?

[Harlowe]

From what I've been reading, her numbers are falling in all but the base, and holding their base really isn't any great accomplishment. Hell even her supporters have said she's inexperienced.....Oh but a quick study they think! The public is fickle, they've lost interest. She'll need to get out of a limo giving a commando shot to gain the attention she had the week of the convention.

No one cares. It's Obama, McCain and the economy.

Which brings to mind the drama queens recent ploy - to stall the debates. Yeah, the only thing that has changed in two days are the polls, and the trend is crazy-bad for McCain right now, with the majority of the public blaming this Admin & the GOP (whether that is correct or not) and by virtue of party affiliate and the fact he's voted with Bush 90% - he owns it.

There isn't anything the two of them are going to do going to Washington other than turning this issue into a bigger three-ring circus, everyone trying to look like they are leading us to the promised land. I want them to assist from afar not go in and try to outdo one another "fixing" things. It's another ploy for attention and to stop the downward momentum, just like Palin was and one I think will also end up back-firing.

but its obvious she still has play with a large segment of America

What in the world are you basing that on? Not the news that's for sure.

[Lurker]

Embar,
Those polls are from two weeks ago.

[Embar Angylwrath]

Embar,
Those polls are from two weeks ago.

Yeah I know. I didn't use them to reflect today's standing (I have no idea what it is), but as an indicator of what Palin did with a key demographic.