Domestic powers of the military...

[Kulaf]

How did that saying go......the dead know nothing.....except that they are dead. You can compensate the living.

[Arathena]

I don't think it was a horrible mistake to intern the Japanese.......I think the horrible mistake was to not give them back their property and to not compensate them.

See? Money makes it ALL better...

People not named Kulaf might do well to read the book by John Dean on the Authoritarian mindset.

Here's a good primer on it, though by Robert Altemeyer.

And the horrible mistake was in violating the fundamental human rights of American citizens. There is no making it vanish.

[Select]

I don't think it was a horrible mistake to intern the Japanese.......I think the horrible mistake was to not give them back their property and to not compensate them. The potential for racial issues was way too great to just do nothing. As well as the potential for spies.

Wow... Compensate them with a time warp and undo the injustice if you're going to be that loopy.

Weren't they unable find a single spy amongst those in the camps?

[Kulaf]

Sherman.....set the way back machine to 1941....a very different time than today. A time of racial segregation and outright hatred. A time when many Americans.....especially those on the West coast were just a bit miffed that the U.S. had just been attacked.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Japan ... rld_War_II

Way to ignore the racial issue there Select.

[Arathena]

Americans of Japanese ancestry were by far the most widely-affected, as all persons with Japanese ancestry were removed from the West Coast and southern Arizona, including orphan infants. In Hawaii, however, where there were 140,000 Japanese nationals (constituting 37 percent of the population), the Japanese were neither relocated nor interned. Even though such actions would have appeared even more congruent with strategic concerns, the political and economic implications of such a move would have been overwhelming. The Japanese were only vulnerable on the mainland. Americans of Italian and German ancestry were also targeted by these restrictions, including internment. As then California Attorney General Earl Warren put it, "When we are dealing with the Caucasian race we have methods that will test the loyalty of them. But when we deal with the Japanese, we are on an entirely different field."

Yes. The racism applied by the government, where they felt they could get away from it, is undeniable. It was not, however, for the protection of the interned minority, but rather, to appear to a racially inflamed political base that they were taking action to protect the base; they knew at the time that it was unneeded. The act was wrong. Period.

[Select]

I'm well aware of the racial issue. I passed second grade
Race wasn't a justified reason to cage them, so I didn't bring it up. It was wrong. Period. The excuse was there might be spies to, as Ara said, make people feel they were being protected, but we all know the real reason. As far as I remember, they didn't find a single spy, so the pathetic excuse becomes more transparent.

[Embar Angylwrath]

It seems Kulaf is supporting his argument by highlighting all the mistakes we've made in the past, and then using those mistakes to justify why we should continue to make the same errors in policy.

[Kulaf]

I'm well aware of the racial issue. I passed second grade
Race wasn't a justified reason to cage them, so I didn't bring it up. It was wrong. Period. The excuse was there might be spies to, as Ara said, make people feel they were being protected, but we all know the real reason. As far as I remember, they didn't find a single spy, so the pathetic excuse becomes more transparent.

Well then why did FDR do it? He was a fairly progressive president racially. His wife campaigned rather vigorously for the rights of blacks.

So why did he do it?

[Arathena]

Well then why did FDR do it? He was a fairly progressive president racially. His wife campaigned rather vigorously for the rights of blacks.

So why did he do it?

Why did he do it? It was an illegitemate response to a false concern, fanned by an out right racist commander of the west coast defenses.

I don't want any of them [persons of Japanese ancestry] here. They are a dangerous element. There is no way to determine their loyalty... It makes no difference whether he is an American citizen, he is still a Japanese. American citizenship does not necessarily determine loyalty... But we must worry about the Japanese all the time until he is wiped off the map.

[The complete lack of sabotage is] "a disturbing and confirming indication that such action will be taken."

DeWitt was so psychopathcially racist that he refused to allow soldiers of Asian ancestry - The 442 Inf Regiment -the same soldiers that were fighting and dying for America across Europe, so hard and fiercely that they eventually had 21 Medals of Honor and 9,486 Purple Hearts - into California on leave, despite direct orders to the contrary.

That is the man that was directly responsible for the internment. Does that sound, to you, like a man that was making able and rational decisions involving the Japanese? For the record, even J. Edgar Hoover thought it was a bad idea. Hoover. The man who saw spies and dissidents around every corner in existance, and around a few corners which didn't exist.

It. Was. Wrong.

I don't care if God himself descends from the clouds and gives the order while angels paint the sky neon purple, the Army cannot, with or without executive order, be turned against the lawful inhabitants of the United States. Not so long as we continue to consider the Constitution to be the fundamental law of the country. It is unlawful, and frankly, morally repugnant. Fuck that. In the ear. With a rusted spork.

[Kulaf]

That doesn't answer the question. FDR was the President.....he signed the EO. So why did he do it?

[Select]

Are you trying to support your argument by having us "discover" that FDR approved it because he saw a good reason for caging people?
Presidents aren't right by default because of their title. They can be wrong. They have been wrong. They're wrong a lot. Humans: we make poor decisions.

I'm not researching it right now, but I believe he would have signed it because of political and social pressure -More than he was willing to stand up against, despite what his racial track record might have been. This country isn't often hit on its own soil, so it freaked out with knee-jerk delirium.

[Embar Angylwrath]

That doesn't answer the question. FDR was the President.....he signed the EO. So why did he do it?

Some former presidents owned slaves. Why did they do it? And just because they did it, is that a justification for continuing to do it?

Your argument is based on justifying today's flawed policy, with yesteryear's flawed policy.

[Partha]

He's an authoritarian. The President has demanded this measure, therefore he must have it. QED.

[Klast Brell]

President's are infallible. Just like the pope.