Clan Ascension Jumps Fear raid

Juujuu · Post by **Juujuu** » Sun Apr 20, 2003 10:13 pm

God that was a funny thing to see right at the end of the post I just skipped.

Hey. You just typed what I was going to!

Edyil, go read the rules for reserving things. Then shut up. Thanks

Vumil · Post by **Vumil** » Sun Apr 20, 2003 10:20 pm

A Reservation should be for the whole enchalada, period. But you seem to think that OTHERS have some sort of entitlement to the those Epic mobs too.

Never what they were intended for, this is the reason several of them have been removed.

Zany,

I don't think you understand the whole FCFS arguement. When something is reserved its saved for someone, so say you log on and want to kill it cause its sitting there, you can't if you respect the reservations, which is fine. Many times raids don't even kill what they reserved, people typically put themselves down for Trak reservations when they knew they couldn't kill him yet. Spawn times were effectively increased by several days because things were not killed. Guilds who would of killed a mob and moved on were held up because of it. People knew when their turns were coming up yet many times waited 2 days before going and fighting/killing a reserved mob, that shows a total lack of respect for everyone allowing that guild to have that reservation.

I honestly never liked Trak or VS reservations, they weren't well suited for it. The only reason fear, hate and sky have worked is because you couldn't reserve gods or epic mobs. And the spawn time on armor mobs is relatively short.

Its not about greed for many, its about freedom. Freedom to log on and do what you want.

Vumil · Post by **Vumil** » Sun Apr 20, 2003 10:24 pm

About the original post, they had EVERY right to be there. What right do you think you have dictating what people do and do not kill when you're not even online. Go read the reservation rules that have been posted for over 3 years.

Fobbon Lazyfoot · Post by **Fobbon Lazyfoot** » Sun Apr 20, 2003 10:53 pm

Didn't we just get into a bitchfest about PoH/PoF reservations on some other thread?

Partha · Post by **Partha** » Sun Apr 20, 2003 11:03 pm

Just my 2 cents......

1) Maxxam is a stand up character and a joy to work with the few times I've been able.

2) The only way the following raid could have had problems was if any armor mobs were unpopped when they got in. Dunno if that could have been the case, but I do see where that could and has happened before. (I also thought armor mobs were on a 14 hour timer.)

3) I know people refuse to believe this, but there are guilds and players out there who not only could, but would use the armor. Just because most 65's don't see them don't mean they're not there.

4) Since reservations don't stop guilds from getting epics if they want, and supposedly no one wants armor mobs, then what's the harm in leaving them as is?

Alluveal · Post by **Alluveal** » Sun Apr 20, 2003 11:33 pm

Edyil, sorry another group ninja'ed your epic mobs but most of the folks here are right. As a community, we pretty much have all agreed with the way things are done now. I know it doesn't please everyone. I know if I were you, I'd be madder than a wet hen. But, ya know.... when I start having to deal with the huge headache (reservations) then maybe I'd take the time to bitch, but since I don't do jack poo doo... I'm gonna stfu and just sum it up to bad luck.

Try another night and keep in mind that if others can do what they did BEFORE YOUR raid, then you should have no problem keeping an eye on epic mobs within as well. Don't be angry with the players... be angry with the game....

Daemonwind · Post by **Daemonwind** » Sun Apr 20, 2003 11:39 pm

Conversely on #4, Partha, why set forth the work to maintain it if the original purpose it served, by and large, isn't present any more?

Just as an example, a year and a half ago when I was playing my druid, and I was invited to a fear raid, even then I had better than all but two pieces of gear, and I was a very averagely equipped druid. Now, with acrylia armour, the only piece I would possibly use is a bracer. There's just SO much better out there.

And, as I said, if you want armour, campingthe Kael Arena is A: Easier than a fear break, and B: drops better armour for more classes.

/shrug

I don't really care either way, I just feel that if plane reservations are only for armour mobs, they're basst their time. Every guild I've known of late camps it for epic pieces, and not for armour, as there's better gotten elsewhere. That armour is what, 3? 4? expansions old now.

Jokanaan · Post by **Jokanaan** » Mon Apr 21, 2003 12:28 am

so.... were the armor mobs up when Edyil's force moved in?

It seems like there's two definitions of "fair" floating around. One side feels those that can do something first should be able to do it, and that's fair. The other side feels there should be a calm and orderly list where people have a given time in which to attempt something. FCFS v. Reservations....

Thing is, just about everyone I see wanting to push the FCFS policy across the board, for every zone/mob, are people from the top 3 or 4 guilds on the server.. people who would benefit most from being able to galavant into a zone as they please for whatever it is they need there.

I still don't see what problem there is in leaving the Old world planes on reserve for people learning to raid. Kael is a good place to cut your teeth on raiding in some repects, but a zone full of unmezzable mobs doesn't really teach much about /assist, doesn't offer nearly the drop rate of Fear/Hate in terms of armor..

And as for PoG... the number of times i've walked into that zone to see nearly nothing up and a / shows three necro's and a handful of people in the same guild... That zone is farmed constantly, for cash gems and, yes, exp.

The possible revamp of Hate makes these points moot, but as long as the planes remain the way they are, there is still no reason to change the reservation system, as it's stood for the last three years.

and, Zanypher, you really need to take a rest man. Please learn, and abide by, the term 'succinct'.

Post by **Ddrak** » Mon Apr 21, 2003 12:51 am

Thing is, just about everyone I see wanting to push the FCFS policy across the board, for every zone/mob, are people from the top 3 or 4 guilds on the server.. people who would benefit most from being able to galavant into a zone as they please for whatever it is they need there.

Actually, you're wrong. You'll find that the people who advocate FCFS tend to be those who have been around longer and have experienced the argument from both sides. I know a lot of people who started out rabid defenders of reservations (like Zany is right now) and yet after another 100 or so days played are set completely against them - I was one of them and my argument with Adune over it was in the old hall of flame. I've yet to meet anyone who started as an FCFS advocate and decided reservations were really better after experiencing both sides.

The amusing thing about it all is that people see the more experienced players saying FCFS is better and immediately assume that it's because we want something from the zone. I can honestly assure you it isn't. There is absolutely nothing in Hate or Fear (as they currently stand) that I'd go there for except for a bit of fun and twinking of random people. In their blind assumptions that we're being "greedy" it never really occurs to the younger ones that we've actually been there, done that and know better now.

Stop and read your comment again:"people from the top 3 or 4 guilds on the server would benefit most from being able to galavant into a zone as they please for whatever it is they need there." and think about it. What do we need from there? Honestly if it fell off reservations, the #6 through #20 guilds on the server would benefit far more from being able to go to Fear or Hate whenever they wanted and would easily keep the top 4 or 5 guilds OUT of Fear/Hate simply because they'd always win an FCFS race there.

In all honesty, the planes going FCFS would not benefit the top guilds on the server one bit. We just don't have the time to be camping 3 day spawns for a quest that was three expansions ago like people in the lower guilds do.

Oh, and Kael arena drops far more armor than Fear/Hate raids with *much* better stats and seems to get ranted much less.

Dd

Post by **Ddrak** » Mon Apr 21, 2003 12:53 am

Oh, I forgot, there's now way "three necro's and a handful of people in the same guild" could keep Growth clear. Ever raided Tunare? Do so and tell me again about the effort required to clear Growth.

Dd

Daemonwind · Post by **Daemonwind** » Mon Apr 21, 2003 12:55 am

Way to state my point of view with far more class than I can ever hope to, Dd.

I myself have absolutely zero reson to go to Hate or Fear. do I have nothing to gain by the zone going FCFS.

Well, there WAS this failed portal break I helped CR, once... =)

Enrichwar · Post by **Enrichwar** » Mon Apr 21, 2003 1:49 am

First off, Noone who plays Eq "diservers" anything, even though you pay your $12.95 a month, the only thing you are entitled to is the ability to log into the game.

I also would like to know, why someone is an elitist asshole because the support FCFS. If you want to argue the reservation system, take a look at alot of the complaints on Stormhammer. Bascially Zany, it looks like you want everything in Eq to be handed to you, and when it isnt you seem to like to like to complain about people calling PNP, or FCFS on you, and then lable them as the entitlment whores, and elitist assholes.
When infact, your the entitlment whore, and elitest asshole in this situation.

Fobbon Lazyfoot · Post by **Fobbon Lazyfoot** » Mon Apr 21, 2003 2:28 am

Hahaha, clearing Growth.... Dae's favorite bitching subject....

Conos of Brell · Post by **Conos of Brell** » Mon Apr 21, 2003 4:24 am

Sorry I dont post here much , but I had to on this one... FCFS would not affect the top 3 or 4 guilds on the server. Assuming you can gauge the top lets say 5 guilds on the server, as those that have taken down the Emperor in Ssra...they are Silent Redemption, Enshadowed, Watchers, Sojourners, and Errants of Derroc. Most if not all of these guilds can and have taken down AoW, HP, XTC, Grieg, and Cursed. All of these mobs drop MUCH MUCH better stuff then any god in PoFear or PoHate ever did. As for epics... As far as I know other then for alts/twinks, or maybe the rare instance of a X-server tansfer these guilds do not go after epics any longer.

Therefore your attitude that we are elitest whatevers, is totaly unfounded. Maybe you should do some research and learn where guilds are and what they are doing , before you bitch at them for stuff.

As for your example of the UDB raid, if you were there and a group of Watchers, or any guild , came up from BEHIND you and ran past you and took the UDB that would be raid jumping. If they were down there doing reets, which a lot of the top guilds still do for the wood elf illusion crown, and you came up upon then and they moved in then, That would not be camp/raid jumping .

You seem to feel cause you see something you want is up or on track or whatnot and that you get it in your mind you want to kill it , that it is now yours ....WRONG !!!!! You have to be there in force to be able to kill it and ready to go or you are out of luck. Let me guess you a re one of those people that does a camp check , then sits at zone in claiming a camp and trying to scramble to get a group together to actually take the camp, same situation , guess what??? I doesnt work .

Just my 2 cp and my opionion solely not that of my guild or anyone else. So if you ahve a issue with me take it up with me !

OMG ICKHOR · Post by **OMG ICKHOR** » Mon Apr 21, 2003 6:05 am

I don't think he meant that they intended to clear growth with 3 necros and a handful of people, just that he was indicating that people were farming the zone for cash.

I think we could clear growth with 3 necros ( except the named treants and tunare ) though. It would just take a while.

I've cleared a whole lot of it solo, and we've cleared fear multiple times with 3 necros in under two hours or so.

Rsak · Post by **Rsak** » Mon Apr 21, 2003 7:31 am

You know this whole notion that because it the armor is crap by your standards and you work bette with FCFS everything should be the way you want it is sad.

Players still raid fear and hate and armor is still looted for wearing. Players still raid Vox and Naggy and that equipment is relatively crap compared with what is out in the game now.

You have to understand that people do not look at the game the same way. Some players are game aholics and raid all the time to get the best gear and levels, while others play the game to have fun with others. Some guilds still do fun challenging nights where they take 2-3 groups to Fear or Hate and they have a blast.

The advantage of the reservation system is that it treats everyone equally. Nothing more. While some people do not feel that this is a good thing others do.

Can FCFS work? Yes it can.
Can Reservations work? Yes it can.

One is not inherently better then the other regardless what anyone will tell you. And at this point if someone is arguing one side over the other they are either new to the debate or just posting so they can see themselves post.

Jadelin Iceheart · Post by **Jadelin Iceheart** » Mon Apr 21, 2003 7:44 am

just posting so they can see themselves post

Yeah, I found that funny.

You know, Nutsak, some of us have opinions that have changed regarding the reservation system. Besides, if it hasn't changed yet and there are those that want it to change, I wouldn't say they are just posting to see themselves post.

Rsak · Post by **Rsak** » Mon Apr 21, 2003 7:53 am

Sorry but if they are posting here about it then they are just posting to see themselves post.

Let me direct you to the correct spot if you want to try to enact some change: http://www.brellrants.net/brell/viewfor ... c9e9cccfef

Harlowe · Post by **Harlowe** » Mon Apr 21, 2003 8:07 am

You truly are in your own little world.

Rsak · Post by **Rsak** » Mon Apr 21, 2003 8:11 am

Oh i am sorry. Did i just use the same observation that you and others used on me?

It is only the real world when i am opposing it. Then when i agree it suddenlty twists to another!

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