Palin as Republican VEEP

Dumbass pinko-nazi-neoconservative-hippy-capitalists.
Post Reply
Lurker
Soverign Grand Postmaster General
Posts: 6233
Joined: Fri Dec 20, 2002 12:14 pm

Re: Palin as Republican VEEP

Post by Lurker »

Kulaf wrote:Well considering he has earmarked Billions over his career in Congress......and continues to increase it yearly, I would think so.
Billions? Post some evidence of that please. Biden averages about 25 million a year in earmarks. You aren't adding up all earmarks for all states in every appropriation bill Biden has ever voted for, are you?
Kulaf wrote:I would think uncle Joe has at least 10 times that or more.
Ah, poor ignorant Kulaf. You linked to a watchdog site and haven't even looked at the data.

Did you know that in 2001 Palin got 27 million for Wasila. According to CAGW, Biden only got 21 million in 2001 for the entire state of Delaware. Biden better hope nobody finds out about this!

Why don't you do a little research on your own links. Bidens numbers are amazingly good according to that site, especially when you only look at what CAGW considers "pork" instead of looking at all earmarks. For example, according to CAGW Delaware had less than 3 million in pork for 2007 and Alaska had over 200 million.

Of course, the amounts aren't the issue. Lying about basic facts is the problem. I'm curious why McCain / Palin have picked the big lie as a campaign strategy.
Lurker
Soverign Grand Postmaster General
Posts: 6233
Joined: Fri Dec 20, 2002 12:14 pm

Re: Palin as Republican VEEP

Post by Lurker »

Jecks wrote:As an Obama supporter I must say that the Democrats in such a tizzy is not helping the cause of getting him elected. I have never seen a party have an election so well in hand just to throw it away in a panic over Caribou Barbie. You need to simmer down.....ignore the fad.......and stay on message.
Obama is going to hit back hard against the lies coming from the McCain camp, and he's going to deliver his message. One thing we learned from 2000 and 2004 is you can't just take the highroad. Swiftboat attacks can't be ignored. You have to respond to every distortion. McCain and Palin have chosen the big lie as their campaign strategy, facts be damned, and that can't be allowed.
Kulaf
Soverign Grand Postmaster General
Posts: 7183
Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2004 3:06 am

Re: Palin as Republican VEEP

Post by Kulaf »

Wow yer really getting desperate when you try to prop up Biden with a site that gave him the worst possible rating in 2007.......0 percent. Lifetime he has a 22% rating.

If Biden is so stingy on earmarks......why did he vote against the DeMint-McCain Earmark Moratorium? Credit to Obama for supporting the bill......hell even Hillary supported it and she's earmarked a few billion this year for NY.
Kulaf
Soverign Grand Postmaster General
Posts: 7183
Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2004 3:06 am

Re: Palin as Republican VEEP

Post by Kulaf »

I do have one question for you Lurker......just curious. What did you do with your "economic stimulus check"?
Ariannda Kusanagi
WTB New Title
Posts: 4004
Joined: Sat Dec 28, 2002 2:36 pm
Location: Colorado
Contact:

Re: Palin as Republican VEEP

Post by Ariannda Kusanagi »

Kulaf wrote:I do have one question for you Lurker......just curious. What did you do with your "economic stimulus check"?
What did anyone ? I'm willing to bet it wasn't spent the way the government had hoped people would spend their checks. Although technically speaking anything the checks were spent on counted as "economic stimulus".
Ariannda, in every game its Ariannda !
Babymage !©
Arch Magus of 70 long ass seasons - RETIRED
Battle tag Ariannda #1491


We know what happens to people who stay in the middle of the road. They get run over.
Kulaf
Soverign Grand Postmaster General
Posts: 7183
Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2004 3:06 am

Re: Palin as Republican VEEP

Post by Kulaf »

Ariannda Kusanagi wrote:
Kulaf wrote:I do have one question for you Lurker......just curious. What did you do with your "economic stimulus check"?
What did anyone ? I'm willing to bet it wasn't spent the way the government had hoped people would spend their checks. Although technically speaking anything the checks were spent on counted as "economic stimulus".
Ohh I am just curious if he stamped that sucker "RETURN TO SENDER" or not.
User avatar
Harlowe
Nubile nuptaphobics ftw
Posts: 10640
Joined: Fri Dec 20, 2002 8:13 pm
Location: My underground lair

Re: Palin as Republican VEEP

Post by Harlowe »

Kulaf wrote:
Ariannda Kusanagi wrote:
Kulaf wrote:I do have one question for you Lurker......just curious. What did you do with your "economic stimulus check"?
What did anyone ? I'm willing to bet it wasn't spent the way the government had hoped people would spend their checks. Although technically speaking anything the checks were spent on counted as "economic stimulus".
Ohh I am just curious if he stamped that sucker "RETURN TO SENDER" or not.
What a ridiculous question. Nice attempt to divert from the facts.
Kulaf
Soverign Grand Postmaster General
Posts: 7183
Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2004 3:06 am

Re: Palin as Republican VEEP

Post by Kulaf »

Not a rediculous question at all. He seems upset that Palin did not return money to the Federal government. I think it is quite interesting to see if Lurker did the same considering his seeming concern about this issue.

In fact considering he and Partha's stance on the current tax rate I am wondering if they are paying taxes under the old rate? I just want to see if they have the courage of their convictions or if it is so much hot air and partizan vitriol.
User avatar
Harlowe
Nubile nuptaphobics ftw
Posts: 10640
Joined: Fri Dec 20, 2002 8:13 pm
Location: My underground lair

Re: Palin as Republican VEEP

Post by Harlowe »

You are kidding right. You are really going to attempt to use fuzzy logic like that? There is a huge and quite obvious difference - Palin is keeping money WE the taxpayers paid. Taxpayers are accepting their own money back.

So back to the real issue as opposed to talk-radio logic - she's lying. She's packaging herself as something she is not. Trying to present it as money she said "thanks, but no thanks" for. The entire McCain/Palin campaign is built on lies and sleaze. Everyone recognizes that and not only are conservatives coming out against it, but sleaze balls like Rove say they are going too far and extremist blowhards like O'Reilly are admitting respect for Obama and stating he's a sincere guy and Alan Greenspan saying McCain's tax plans are BAD for AMERICA. The guy is a Republican and McCain buddy btw. If you can't smell the coffee, you are doing a fine job of burying your head in the sand.
Lurker
Soverign Grand Postmaster General
Posts: 6233
Joined: Fri Dec 20, 2002 12:14 pm

Re: Palin as Republican VEEP

Post by Lurker »

Kulaf wrote:Not a rediculous question at all. He seems upset that Palin did not return money to the Federal government. I think it is quite interesting to see if Lurker did the same considering his seeming concern about this issue.
My lord you are dense. It's not the money; it's the lying.

Palin's statements about the bridge are 180 degrees from the truth. Deliberately so. I don't care if Palin got hundreds of millions in earmarks, which she did. I care that John McCain goes on national tv and says she got zero. The McCain / Palin campaign has made the decision that they will lie about everything and hope the American people don't notice. That's a concern. They prove daily that they are both unfit to lead.

Your attack on the tax issue is too stupid to warrant a response. I'm sure you'll want to stick with that topic though. Sucking in irrelevant tangents like some moronic black hole is your favorite deflection tactic.
Harlowe wrote:Trying to present it as money she said "thanks, but no thanks" for.
Didn't you read Kulafs' brilliant analysis on that? According to Kulaf when Palin said "thanks, but no thanks" she meant "thanks for the money, no thanks for the bridge." What a fucking tool.
Kulaf
Soverign Grand Postmaster General
Posts: 7183
Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2004 3:06 am

Re: Palin as Republican VEEP

Post by Kulaf »

Harlowe wrote:You are kidding right. You are really going to attempt to use fuzzy logic like that? There is a huge and quite obvious difference - Palin is keeping money WE the taxpayers paid. Taxpayers are accepting their own money back.

So back to the real issue as opposed to talk-radio logic - she's lying. She's packaging herself as something she is not. Trying to present it as money she said "thanks, but no thanks" for. The entire McCain/Palin campaign is built on lies and sleaze. Everyone recognizes that and not only are conservatives coming out against it, but sleaze balls like Rove say they are going too far and extremist blowhards like O'Reilly are admitting respect for Obama and stating he's a sincere guy and Alan Greenspan saying McCain's tax plans are BAD for AMERICA. The guy is a Republican and McCain buddy btw. If you can't smell the coffee, you are doing a fine job of burying your head in the sand.
See you missed a very important part of Greenspan's statement:

"Unless we cut spending, no," the former Federal Reserve chairman said Friday when asked about McCain's proposed tax cuts, pegged in some estimates at $3.3 trillion.

"I'm not in favor of financing tax cuts with borrowed money."

McCain is going to cut spending......Obama is going to increase spending. Even Lurker and Partha have said it.....they know it's coming. Obama is going to bring back big government. Partha as much as said you are going to see government programs like you haven't seen since the New Deal.

I thought you were a Libertarian Harlowe......how can you possibly not see Obama as anything more than a big government Democrat. Yer cutting off yer nose to spite your face.

It would be far better to place McCain who is an independent but a conservative when it comes to spending in the White House. Then a Democraticly controlled Congress is checked by his veto power......and any desire he might have to mess too much with the tax rate is offset by their budgetary power. Didn't you learn a damn thing from having the Republicans in control of both branches?
Partha
Reading is fundamental!!!1!!
Posts: 11322
Joined: Sat Dec 21, 2002 9:42 am
Location: Rockford, IL

Re: Palin as Republican VEEP

Post by Partha »

"Unless we cut spending, no," the former Federal Reserve chairman said Friday when asked about McCain's proposed tax cuts, pegged in some estimates at $3.3 trillion.

"I'm not in favor of financing tax cuts with borrowed money."
Ah, Greenspan, lying to save his own ass. He was fully in favor of financing BUSH'S tax cuts with borrowed money.
McCain is going to cut spending......Obama is going to increase spending. Even Lurker and Partha have said it.....they know it's coming. Obama is going to bring back big government. Partha as much as said you are going to see government programs like you haven't seen since the New Deal.
McCain will cut spending like Bush cut spending....not at all, in other words.

And domestic government has to grow back to levels able to handle the demands of a country of 300+ million people, sorry to bother you. I know you must be salivating over a government so ill-equipped to deal with problems that they have no-fly zones in parts of Texas today so people can't see the devastation, but most Americans with their heads on straight aren't like that.
It would be far better to place McCain who is an independent but a conservative when it comes to spending in the White House. Then a Democraticly controlled Congress is checked by his veto power......and any desire he might have to mess too much with the tax rate is offset by their budgetary power. Didn't you learn a damn thing from having the Republicans in control of both branches?
Yes, we learned that you supported it fully and still defend it today. And a man whose voting record has become more mainstream Congressional GOP as he ages is not a 'independent'.
Well, it’s the Super-Monroe Doctrine: “Get off our oil, people who dress funny!” - M. Bouffant

"You're a bad captain, Zarde. People like you only learn by being touched, and hard. And you will greatly disapprove of where these men put their hands." - M. Vanderbeam.
Ddrak
Save a Koala, deport an Australian
Posts: 17516
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2003 3:00 pm
Location: Straya mate!
Contact:

Re: Palin as Republican VEEP

Post by Ddrak »

McCain is going to cut spending
Even if he does, it's not going to be by near enough to fund his tax cuts. Take a look at the CBO estimates - he'd need to cut the federal budget by over a third to get it back in the black and even by eliminating the programs he's only said he'll start up committees to "look at" there wouldn't be close to enough there. To put it simply, he'd have to pull out of Iraq and Afghanistan immediately, disband about a quarter of the military, eliminate social security completely and axe a whole bunch of other stuff (yes, I made that up on the spot, let me know if you have a better plan for dropping a third off the budget). Do you seriously believe he's going to go anywhere near that?

Obama's not clear either, but at least his proposals involve letting the tax cuts expire and hiking the higher tax brackets to pay for his proposals. That's one hell of a lot more financially responsible than the McCain idea of making the Bush budget blowouts look like stealing a nickel from petty cash.

As for Palin, I think we're all agreed that she's lying or misrepresenting the actual facts. She certainly didn't send any money back, which is what the "Thanks but no thanks" line implies - she quite happily accepted the earmark even though the actual target of the earmark was significantly broadened.

On pork spending, Biden is #62 and Obama is #70, which are both excellent records (Kula's #2 for Biden is straight up misreading stats), but nothing on McCain who has no pork at all which is very commendable. Palin, however, comes from a State which is #1 on the pork spending records and who is actually proud of the amount of money she's earmarked for her constituents while in Alaska. Senator Stevens from Alaska - someone who Palin could very well have told "thanks but no thanks" for earmarks manages to come in at #2 on the pork spending, so it's utterly futile to say Palin has anything commendable at all in her record on government waste.

McCain's campaign is making an art form of the blatant lie. Palin's lying in her pretense of cutting spending. McCain's lying whenever he talks about his track record with the Bush administration. The campaign already had one ad completely withdrawn for blatant lying and then made another ad (the teaching sex one) which is even more blatant a lie. If there's one thing that tells me, it's a McCain presidency would lie, cheat and do anything else necessary to do whatever it wanted. Definitely not a change from the current crowd at all.

On the other hand, Obama is definitely your classic tax-and-spend democrat. He's all about social programs and a big friendly government, and really makes no apologies for it (nor should he - it's what he believes in).

Take your pick.

Dd
Image
Kulaf
Soverign Grand Postmaster General
Posts: 7183
Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2004 3:06 am

Re: Palin as Republican VEEP

Post by Kulaf »

Answer me this Dd......how is McCain GOING to cut taxes if he was elected? Answer......he can't. Congress won't let him do it. That is why it is safe for him to run on a platform of cutting taxes.......he knows that even if he wants to he doesn't have the power to without cooperation from Congress.

Obama on the other hand scares the crap out of me because he IS going to be able to do everything he wants to do which is going to drive a nail in the coffin of this already semi in the grave economy. We are one additional major world market collapse away from a full blown depression.
Ddrak
Save a Koala, deport an Australian
Posts: 17516
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2003 3:00 pm
Location: Straya mate!
Contact:

Re: Palin as Republican VEEP

Post by Ddrak »

Hard to say what Congress will do. They control the purse so technically McCain can't lower taxes and Obama can't increase spending without their say-so. Politicians much prefer to do popular things like dropping taxes and spending money rather than the opposite more painful stuff, so they could jump either way. The GOP could just keep filibustering things they don't like too.

My only real feeling is that both candidates promise to balance the budget (a good thing) but McCain's promise depends a lot more on hand waving and investigations on where cuts might happen along with hard promises of tax cuts, while Obama's promise has tax hikes and a relatively stable spending (when compared to the current budget). Of the two plans, Obama's is more credible and easily attainable. If you honestly believe Congress won't cut taxes like McCain wants then his entire economic platform goes out the window because if they don't cut taxes then they sure as hell aren't going to cut services either (no sane politician would drop the carrot and keep the whip) so he just ends up being an ineffective and weak President - which is gonna be a nightmare if a market collapse happens.

I just don't see McCain's financial plans as credible, and while I don't agree with Obama's politics I can see his plan as a lot more financially stable.

Dd
Image
User avatar
Harlowe
Nubile nuptaphobics ftw
Posts: 10640
Joined: Fri Dec 20, 2002 8:13 pm
Location: My underground lair

Re: Palin as Republican VEEP

Post by Harlowe »

Economists say our economy has historically done better with a Democratic president.

How Obama could scare you and Palin doesn't (which she should if you consider McCain's age and poor health) is mind boggling. You should be looking very closely at her, because there is over a 60% chance we'll end up with that loon as commander-in-chief.

And as Libertarian (little "l" as I've had to state numerous times) I'm much more concerned with our PERSONAL freedoms over being concerned with smoke and mirrors political rhetoric. Both parties are going to take our money, McCain isn't going to take any less. It's the manner in which they will take it and invest that money that differs. McCain will be another Bush when it comes to spending and we know how that works out. Saying someone who is one of the top ten abusers is going to reform the governement and fix this ecomony is a joke. A huge pile of horseshit. Even if a person were to champion earmarks THAT IS NOT going to be a drop in the bucket.

So having some extreme religious-right, redneck chick as president that has been the biggest abuser of earmarks (just because she did LESS then her predecessor means nothing when she is still in the top 10 for pork), ran up debt, thinks having Russia across the Bearing Straights from her state and a pipe-line equals foreign policy & energy expertise, repeated lies & deception, is guilty of extreme cronyism, is now being investigated for more than one "Troopergate" type of situation....that isn't a hell of a lot scarier than Obama? We've only had a few weeks of her shit being uncovered. Obama has been vetted for nearly 2 years. So if she doesn't scare you, all I can do is shake my head and say "wow". Just wow.
Ddrak
Save a Koala, deport an Australian
Posts: 17516
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2003 3:00 pm
Location: Straya mate!
Contact:

Re: Palin as Republican VEEP

Post by Ddrak »

I do want to say that while I disagree with Kula, I understand the reasoning. If you see big government as the absolute danger to America then Obama isn't a very attractive proposition and you're stuck with the alternative (assuming you figure a vote for Barr is the same as half a vote for Obama).

Dd
Image
User avatar
Harlowe
Nubile nuptaphobics ftw
Posts: 10640
Joined: Fri Dec 20, 2002 8:13 pm
Location: My underground lair

Re: Palin as Republican VEEP

Post by Harlowe »

Ddrak wrote:I do want to say that while I disagree with Kula, I understand the reasoning. If you see big government as the absolute danger to America then Obama isn't a very attractive proposition and you're stuck with the alternative (assuming you figure a vote for Barr is the same as half a vote for Obama).

Dd
You'd have to be in a deep state of denial to believe that any candidate (other than a third party) is going to equal smaller government or less spending by virtue of what party they are affiliated with.
Partha
Reading is fundamental!!!1!!
Posts: 11322
Joined: Sat Dec 21, 2002 9:42 am
Location: Rockford, IL

Re: Palin as Republican VEEP

Post by Partha »

More people = bigger government to service said larger population, even if you don't add in new spending. The whole idea that we're going to return to colonial style government is a dangerous fantasy.
Well, it’s the Super-Monroe Doctrine: “Get off our oil, people who dress funny!” - M. Bouffant

"You're a bad captain, Zarde. People like you only learn by being touched, and hard. And you will greatly disapprove of where these men put their hands." - M. Vanderbeam.
Tarfang_Trubasher
Mastah Elect of 9
Posts: 253
Joined: Fri Dec 20, 2002 10:42 am

Re: Palin as Republican VEEP

Post by Tarfang_Trubasher »

Ddrak wrote:If you see big government as the absolute danger to America then Obama isn't a very attractive proposition and you're stuck with the alternative (assuming you figure a vote for Barr is the same as half a vote for Obama).
Dd, I think that's one of the better things I've read today. Though, I'm not sure I see big government as the "absolute" danger, but I do feel it is a danger. Couple that with your other statement about Bob Barr -- is that's an unfortunate truth? Though, I know people wouldn't mind having a go at his record either.

It's becoming a "vote for the devil I know" race for me lately. It's taken what little "fight" I had away.

-TF
Tarfang Trubasher
Master Basher of the Trollie Kind
Post Reply