Palin as Republican VEEP

[Lurker]

I'll disagree. He may be shallow and simple-minded, but that's not why he focuses on irrelevancies.

That's probably true for most Republicans but Rsak does this on every topic whether it's political or not. I don't think his idiocy and shallow focus is just a defense of McCain / Palin. Look at his analysis on whether Jesus spoke out against social injustice.

No, Lurker you are lying once again. You failed to address the points that were under discussion. You used additional points that had zero relationship with what was being asked or failed to even attempt to make any logical relationship between them.

You are so close now! I did use additional points. Good job noticing that, Rsak. Now go read it again because the relationship was crystal clear.

Also apparently you heard wrong about Jesus : “Render unto Caesar the things which are Caesar’s, and unto God the things that are God’s”

You think that quote proves that Jesus didn't speak out against social injustice or government wrong doing? Seriously?

So maybe I am simple and with that comes honesty, but I will wear that with pride when compared to your deceitful behavior.

You aren't Forrest Gump, Rsak, and simple doesn't always mean honest. Sometimes it just means stupid, stupid.

[Harlowe]

Lurker already answered the question, what do you need me to officially go "what he said" in order to answer? But you aren't really looking for an answer to a rather stupid question, you are merely doing your diversionary semantic masturbation aka your usual.

[Ddrak]

While both sides lie, I'd have to say at this point the Republicans are doing a hell of a lot more lying than the Democrats. It's starting to shape up a lot like '04, which makes me sad.

I mean seriously, Palin was flat out lying about her turning down the money for Alaska, the whole "teaching kindergarterners sex" ad was such a blatant lie that it's almost worth suing for defamation and you get the whole part of McCain lying about what his position was through Bush's first term. That's all just fucked up.

Dd

[Partha]

How can they defend the truth, Dd?

[Kulaf]

Nice edit Partha. I came back to comment on your post and it was mostly gone. Afraid that one was going to draw some heat?

[Harlowe]

The lies are really troubling. McCain keeps bringing up that she is going to fight earmarks in Washington, that's her big "reformer" role (he was entirely embarrassing on The View btw) when in comparison to Illinois which had $30 per person in earmarks, Alaska had nearly $400 and Washilla had over $1,200 under Palin's watch.

It's a fucking joke.
http://www.consortiumnews.com/2008/091308.html

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld ... 6410.story

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/t ... r-who.html

http://primebuzz.kcstar.com/?q=node/14375

http://www.adn.com/politics/story/515517.html

I can't wait for the Daily Show to be back on Monday, with all of the shit that has been going on some levity would feel good.

Here's a little though, that was spot on..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rfz6QGmuvp4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pc3Zxq078ns

[Kulaf]

Think about what you are comparing. AK has fewer people than IL......but a road costs just as much if not more to build and is just a necessary there as it is in IL. You cannot compare cost per capita on infrastructure.

And I am sorry but all this hot air about Palin's earmark record......yet nothing about Joe "Pork Barrel" Bidden? Give me a break. If you all were really interested in this issue you'd do some examination of your own VP candidate and put down your stones cuz you might just break something in your own house.

[Kulaf]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 03894.html

Start there.....it's just the tip of the iceberg.

[Lurker]

Kulaf,

The difference is that Obama has been transparent about his earmarks while McCain / Palin have been lying about hers. I'm also not sure what you mean by that being the "tip of the iceberg" since the WP article looks pretty comprehensive. The Joe "Pork Barrel" Biden crack seems a bit odd too as it isn't supported by the article you linked.

=====

Harlowe,
We'll see if we have a functioning press corp in this country and if there are any conservatives left with ethics. McCain / Palin have clearly settled on the big lie as a campaign strategy. We'll see if there's any blowback.

[Kulaf]

Kulaf,

The difference is that Obama has been transparent about his earmarks while McCain / Palin have been lying about hers. I'm also not sure what you mean by that being the "tip of the iceberg" since the WP article looks pretty comprehensive. The Joe "Pork Barrel" Biden crack seems a bit odd too as it isn't supported by the article you linked.

=====

Harlowe,
We'll see if we have a functioning press corp in this country and if there are any conservatives left with ethics. McCain / Palin have clearly settled on the big lie as a campaign strategy. We'll see if there's any blowback.

I love your carefully worded response Lurker......are you by chance in politics yourself.

Obama and McCain both have tough stances on earmarks, McCain having 0 and Obama having very few. Where they diverge is their VP choices. Biden has requested some 330 million for FY09 alone.

Becareful how hard you beat this earmark drum......Joe can't hide forever.

[Kulaf]

Ohh and for those keeping score. Joe's home state of Delaware only has about 180k more people than Alaska.....in case you want to compute the per capita division of that 330 million.

[Lurker]

Think about what you are comparing. AK has fewer people than IL......but a road costs just as much if not more to build and is just a necessary there as it is in IL. You cannot compare cost per capita on infrastructure.

Harlowe wasn't including all federal money sent to Alaska for infrastructure, just earmarks. For example, the Bridge to Nowhere earmark that Palin constantly lies about was removed by Congress but AK still got that money. Money to the general infrastructure fund isn't included in the earmark totals.

Where they diverge is their VP choices. Biden has requested some 330 million for FY09 alone.

Becareful how hard you beat this earmark drum......Joe can't hide forever.

Where they diverge is that McCain is lying about it. Palin is lying about it. Obama / Biden aren't and Biden isn't trying to hide anything. Here are Biden's earmark requests.

[Kulaf]

Well let's see:

http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/r ... vote=00220

There is the rollcall vote for the spending bill that included the "bridge to nowhere". Let's look at the votes:

Obama (D-IL), Yea
Biden (D-DE), Yea

McCain (R-AZ), Nay

Now really......is this going to be another one of those John Kerry moements were they were for it.....before they were against it kinda things?

[Lurker]

How would a Republican respond to that.... hmmmm. Oh, I got it!

OMG John McCain wanted to cut all funding for roads and bridges!

The point isn't who voted for an appropriations bill that passed 91 - 4, the point is who is lying about things now. That would be McCain / Palin. If you have evidence that Obama or Biden are saying they opposed the bridge funding you can certainly post that.

====

Ohhh and for those keeping score. Palin's home state of Alaska has received $154,865,000 in earmarks this year, and Delaware has received $37,287,000. In case you want to compute the per capita division of that.

[Kulaf]

How would a Republican respond to that.... hmmmm. Oh, I got it!

OMG John McCain wanted to cut all funding for roads and bridges!

The point isn't who voted for an appropriations bill that passed 91 - 4, the point is who is lying about things now. That would be McCain / Palin. If you have evidence that Obama or Biden are saying they opposed the bridge funding you can certainly post that.

====

Ohhh and for those keeping score. Palin's home state of Alaska has received $154,865,000 in earmarks this year, and Delaware has received $37,287,000. In case you want to compute the per capita division of that.

Well you are corect.......there are 154M in earmarks going to AK this year. Or course that is down from the over 500M that were going to AK under the previous governor. That is how things change. Meanwhile Obama has wracked up over 1 billion in earmarks in his tenure as Senator.......and yea that is billion with a B.

[Kulaf]

http://councilfor.cagw.org/site/News2?a ... e&id=11594

This just off the news wire.....Lurker lies! Film at 11:00.

CCAGW: BRIDGING THE KNOWLEDGE GAP ON THE “BRIDGE TO NOWHERE”

(Washington, D.C.) - The Council for Citizens Against Government Waste (CCAGW) today released a backgrounder on congressional funding for the bridge from Ketchikan to Gravina Island in Alaska, better known as the “Bridge to Nowhere.” The material addresses some of the questions raised about the history of the bridge and its ultimate demise.

“There has been much debate and even more speculation about how funds for the Bridge to Nowhere were first provided, Congress’s role in changing the nature of the funding, and the various options the state of Alaska had to build the bridge,” said CCAGW President Tom Schatz. “Many in the media and the public are providing an opinion when they should be providing the facts. We intend to continually update this document on our website as additional verifiable information becomes available.”

The Bridge to Nowhere was first funded in August 2005 through the 2005 SAFETEA-LU Act through a $223 million earmark inserted by then-House Transportation and Infrastructure Committee Chairman Don Young (R-Alaska). In October, 2005, Sen. Tom Coburn (R-Okla.) offered an amendment to the fiscal 2006 Transportation Appropriations Act to transfer $75 million in funding for the Bridge to Nowhere, along with money for the Knik Arm Bridge in Alaska, to support the rebuilding of the Twin Spans Bridge in New Orleans following Hurricane Katrina. His amendment was defeated by a vote of 15-82. Senators Biden (D-Del.) and Obama (D-Ill.) voted against the amendment; Sen. McCain (R-Ariz.) was not present for the vote.

In November, 2005, Congress included language in the final version of the fiscal 2006 Transportation Appropriations Act that allowed the state of Alaska to either spend money on the two bridges or on other surface transportation projects. In October, 2006, Alaska Governor Frank Murkowski included $91 million for the Gravina Island Bridge in his budget submission for fiscal year 2007. As a candidate for governor, Sarah Palin expressed a mixture of support and doubt about the bridge, particularly about how the project would be funded. As governor, she submitted her budget on January 17, 2007 without any money for the bridge. On July 17, 2007, the Associated Press reported that “The state of Alaska on Friday officially abandoned the ‘bridge to nowhere’ project that became a nationwide symbol of federal pork-barrel spending.” Governor Palin said in a statement that “Ketchikan desires a better way to reach the airport, but the $398 million bridge is not the answer.”

“Media reports that Congress killed the Bridge to Nowhere are not accurate,” said Schatz. “The 2006 transportation appropriations bill allowed Alaska to decide whether or not to move forward. Governor Murkowski said yes; Governor Palin said no. Any discussion about the project should begin with facts.”

The Council for Citizens Against Government Waste is the lobbying arm of Citizens Against Government Waste, a nonpartisan, nonprofit organization dedicated to eliminating waste, fraud, abuse, and mismanagement in government.

[Harlowe]

Greenspan a Republican and buddy of McCain

http://money.cnn.com/2008/09/14/news/ec ... tm?cnn=yes

And by the way, you think comparing OVERALL spending is more accurate than per capita? lol That's hilarious.

The main point being, like Lurker said - who the hell is being honest about it and who is fucking lying.

[Lurker]

Well you are corect.......there are 154M in earmarks going to AK this year. Or course that is down from the over 500M that were going to AK under the previous governor. That is how things change. Meanwhile Obama has wracked up over 1 billion in earmarks in his tenure as Senator.......and yea that is billion with a B.

It's not the amounts, it's the lying. Why are McCain / Palin lying when they could have just said she reduced earmark requests? Does that worry you?

This just off the news wire.....Lurker lies! Film at 11:00.

Just off the wire.... Kulaf don't read too good. The summation you posted doesn't contradict my prior statements at all and it certainly doesn't dispute the fact that Palin and McCain are lying about her role. I suggest you re-read what I said here and here. Nothing in Palin's statement that she told Congress 'thanks but no thanks' is accurate.

[Kulaf]

Well you are corect.......there are 154M in earmarks going to AK this year. Or course that is down from the over 500M that were going to AK under the previous governor. That is how things change. Meanwhile Obama has wracked up over 1 billion in earmarks in his tenure as Senator.......and yea that is billion with a B.

It's not the amounts, it's the lying. Why are McCain / Palin lying when they could have just said she reduced earmark requests? Does that worry you?

Wait a sec....isn't that the reverse Clinton strategy.....it's not about the sex it's about the lying?

"I championed reform to end the abuses of earmark spending by Congress. In fact, I told Congress -- I told Congress, 'Thanks, but no thanks,' on that bridge to nowhere. If our state wanted a bridge, I said we'd build it ourselves."

Nothing in there is a lie. As stimpulated in my previous citation Congress sent the earmarked money.......just without the earmark designating where it must be spent. So it was TOTALLY at her discretion to use the money to build the bridge or not. She killed the bridge project. So her actions told Congress 'Thanks, but no thanks,'. She thanked them for the money.....but chose not to spend it on the bridge.

You're being a bit to literal in your interpretation of a quote during a political speech.

Also.....for a guy who is for reform.......and concerned about the budget......I find your failure to applaud Palin for her reduction in earmark requests rather disturbing. I give credit where credit is due in that Senator Obama for the most part is very frugal in his earmark requests and they generally are going for good causes......I would at least expect you to do the same.

[Harlowe]

She reduced wholly ridiculous earmarks to lesser ridiculous earmarks. Isn't that giving someone a smaller shit sandwich? It's still a shit sandwich.

She had no choice but to not build the bridge, it wasn't being fully funded. She did however keep the money.