Clan Ascension Jumps Fear raid

Massterrloo · Post by **Massterrloo** » Sat Apr 26, 2003 12:49 pm

Only monk twinks have to do half those mobs now, - I just did ..

The monk in the Rath mts. (new nerfed)

Pawbuster

Iksar Betrayer

And 4 easy fights.

I had to do the 4 easy fights a second time cause I handed in to the wrong Kaiaren. Life is hard.

Mastrloo
64 monk
Alarius

Hakthek · Post by **Hakthek** » Sat Apr 26, 2003 5:42 pm

Yeah, I had forgotten about getting Brother Qwinn and Brother Zephyl to spawn to turn-in...

Awea, they still are rare spawn and difficult to get unless you buy a MQ.

Awea · Post by **Awea** » Sat Apr 26, 2003 10:49 pm

Don't have to tell me, I spent 21 days in Guk waiting for Raster. It was good though. Learned to single pull, watch pathing, got my bind wounds up, got 5 lvls, lots of money, good talkin in OOC (omg! Guk had like, 40 ppl+ then!), duoed with some cool priests after the crysoberyl talisman, etc

Kestri · Post by **Kestri** » Sat Apr 26, 2003 11:37 pm

Zany said:

So I'll admit I dont know the rich and wonderful history of Brell that most of you do, but y'know what? I live in the here and now, and shit is fine the way it is. However, there is an interesting trend towards being a prick these days, and I'm sorry that most of you just dont fucking see it.

Hmmm if it is working fine then why are you saying we should change it? It was working fine until some people decided that epic mobs are included in the reservation process and complained in this thread....

Alluveal · Post by **Alluveal** » Sun Apr 27, 2003 1:27 am

I wonder what this thread would look like if everyone who hadn't been to Hate or Fear in the last month hadn't posted at all. My guess is, it would be a pretty short thread. Point being, why do I see people even arguing about the goddamned Hate/Fear reservations when they have absolutely no use/need for the zone?

I'm gonna say that the people who should have a big voice on the direction of the reservation system should be the ones who are *primarily* affected by it. I mean, is that going out on a limb to say? Those who actually sign up for raids? Those who maintain the board/calendar? VC has no use for these planes anymore, but we have no issue signing up like the rest of the folks. We wanna go to Fear? We put our name on the board. Doesn't mean that we don't keep an eye on it from time to time to see if a raid is cancelled (in order to go give the giant turd a big slap-down every once in a blue moon.) I'm not going to sit here and get the rhetoric going about how FCFS is the best or that the reservations should be altered/changed or even removed. Why is it my business if I'm not the one using those zones?

Why I am not supportive of abolishing the reservation system? Well, because ya know... I remember what it was like to be a smaller guild who planned a big raid (back when Hate/Fear WAS big) and thought it was just the cat's meow. Maybe some folks here have forgotten that? I dunno. I like the idea that we give our smaller/newer guilds the chance to plan out a Hate raid w/o worrying about leap-frogging. Why should I give a F*? I'm not dying to go there.

It may seem small and stupid to most people here, and the armor may seem outdated or the epics obsolete. But to some, it does mean something. Maybe it's ok to remember that?

Allu

Partha · Post by **Partha** » Sun Apr 27, 2003 2:55 am

Why I am not supportive of abolishing the reservation system? Well, because ya know... I remember what it was like to be a smaller guild who planned a big raid (back when Hate/Fear WAS big) and thought it was just the cat's meow. Maybe some folks here have forgotten that? I dunno. I like the idea that we give our smaller/newer guilds the chance to plan out a Hate raid w/o worrying about leap-frogging. Why should I give a F*? I'm not dying to go there.

It may seem small and stupid to most people here, and the armor may seem outdated or the epics obsolete. But to some, it does mean something. Maybe it's ok to remember that?

Allu

Thank you, Allu. Maybe they'll listen to you, since I've been saying this over and over and people still don't get the idea.

Arkaron · Post by **Arkaron** » Sun Apr 27, 2003 6:20 am

I've been up for far too long, so fuck my use of the English language at the moment, mmkay?

I never bought the 'oppression' bullshit. If Fear/Hate go FCFS, I think you'll probably see CT and Inny drop more, much like Naggy/Vox drop more now. The black heliocopter myth is a joke--though if I ran into a wall like the broken encounter that is PoE, I might have my guild clear old world planes for laughs once in a while.

As for raiding issues, you don't need a huge fucking 80 person raid to clear Fear or Hate and anyone who thinks so would do well to either git some learnin' or delete their characters. If you don't have the force to do it, maybe invest in an alliance or /gasp make friends and learn to work as a team.

Funny how nobody actually comes out and says who they think will be dominating everything. Do you REALLY think that SR/Ensh/Sojo/Watchers/Whoever is going to sekrutly wait at the Ferrott portal until someone is setting up for CT for an epic drop, and then waltz in and clear the zone to laugh at you?

Well. I take that back. EoD might, but it's my understanding that the other raid can counter the raid jump simply by casting Eye of Zomm, which from the stories I hear in game, would cause the entire guild to run straight for Cazic Thule.

Why don't you send Jaradis a tell and ask him what his primary is? I'm willing to bet you it isn't the shaman epic. I don't think Jasi fights with Ragebringer, do you? Go ahead and counter me with "They have better weapons, blah blah blah insert I-should-be-flagged-for-Tactics-because-I-have-a-l33t-rusty-axe-entitlement statement here."

It won't work. Dosn't hold any weight at all. The very fact that your Uber Oppressors have access to better equipment in the first place will keep them plenty occupied. You'll get yours. Just remember that having your epic dosn't mean you don't suck, nor does it entitle you to anything beyond that.

/rant off. Getting coffee.

Alluveal · Post by **Alluveal** » Sun Apr 27, 2003 1:05 pm

I don't think that Inny and CT will drop more. The guilds that go there on a regular basis now don't/can't drop em. When VC wanted to take CT or Inny out, we'd wait for a raid to leave early or go in when a raid cancelled. We used to take CT down quite a bit, actually.

The bottom line (again) is why do you care? The people who utilize the current system the most SHOULD be the ones who have the biggest say in it, right? If you're not in that "demographic" then why do you care?

Arkaron · Post by **Arkaron** » Sun Apr 27, 2003 3:15 pm

I actually am in that demographic of people you speak of. Being guildless and level 50, I rely on other guilds or indy reservations to do anything planar. I agree that those who use it should have more of a say, but the problem is (maybe) figuring out who utilizes it.

Minute · Post by **Minute** » Sun Apr 27, 2003 4:02 pm

The reservation was and is a good system to maintain order on an area that is extremely sought after and crowded. It's a simple and ancient rule of getting in line and waiting your turn. The only reason to ever want something other then that is when what you want becomes more important then your consideration for what other people might want.

That being said, when an area is no longer highly crowded and sought after, there is no demand for such a system to be in place. EQ has become so large that no area is so extremely crowded that lists have to be formed. And because of that, there is no need for a reservation system to be in place at all. What it is being used for is not the initial purpose, and now is often only to place claims on epic mobs.

Not uncommon for people to take rules that were set in place to help the whole and bend them for their own purposes.

Post by **Ddrak** » Sun Apr 27, 2003 6:47 pm

The reservation was and is a good system to maintain order on an area that is extremely sought after and crowded. It's a simple and ancient rule of getting in line and waiting your turn. The only reason to ever want something other then that is when what you want becomes more important then your consideration for what other people might want.

That's a pretty common fallacy that builds on the basically incorrect assumption that everyone deserves the same chance independant of the amount of work they've put into preparing for that chance. Can I assume from that statement that the "simpe and ancient rule" also means that people should forego university education and instead just get in line for a job? After all, surely getting in line to make sure everyone gets their turn is a "better" system than bettering yourself. Right?

Allu,

It is the people who are maintaining the calender that get the only say. The ones that sign up are doing zero work to support the system and deserve zero input into whether the system stays or goes. Who are you to suggest the mods be held to the wishes of anyone but themselves?

As for FCFS vs Reservations, I think it is absolutely wrong that the entire server be made to support the wishes of any group of people that use those zones though. If people want to support reservations then organize a reservation/rotation between those that agree with that method. Those that support FCFS should just ignore the reservation/rotation system and do what they want. What right do you really have to tell ANYONE how to play the game?

If PRC (for example) really wanted to into Fear - what right does anyone have to say they aren't allowed to do it when and where they choose?

Dd

Post by **Relbeek Einre** » Sun Apr 27, 2003 6:50 pm

We all have that right, Ddrak.

We just don't have any authority aside from boycotting them to enforce that right.

Alluveal · Post by **Alluveal** » Sun Apr 27, 2003 7:33 pm

Who are you to suggest the mods be held to the wishes of anyone but themselves?

I am not suggesting anything. I am stating that those who are effected the most by these decisions should be the ones that the board mods listen to. I never imagined Jaradis and Kestri to be ones to hold the reservation system "ransom" or to threaten the well-being of the server. Maybe some here do? I dunno.

Post by **Relbeek Einre** » Sun Apr 27, 2003 7:38 pm

Anyone who does needs a boot to the ass.

I may not have agreed with all their decisions but I believe thy did what they felt was best for Brell.

Awea · Post by **Awea** » Sun Apr 27, 2003 7:41 pm

Hate might get dropped from reservations simply because of the upgrades it's gonna gain soon. It's a big ass zone now.

Post by **Ddrak** » Sun Apr 27, 2003 10:30 pm

I am stating that those who are effected the most by these decisions should be the ones that the board mods listen to.

Yes and no. Sometimes that's like suggesting parents should listen to what their children tell them is best rather than going with what the benefit of hindsight has told the parents is, in fact, the best. I'm saying they should make their decisions on whatever criteria they seem fit, whether it be the opinions of their peers, the opinions of the people they moderate or the opinions of Stalin's ghost.

Dd

Partha · Post by **Partha** » Sun Apr 27, 2003 10:34 pm

The ones that sign up are doing zero work to support the system and deserve zero input into whether the system stays or goes

I'd like to point out here that those using the system correctly ARE supporting the system. It's the ones who use it INcorrectly who are not supporting the system.

Well, them and those who'd like to destroy the system entirely.

Post by **Ddrak** » Sun Apr 27, 2003 10:43 pm

Partha,

You may misunderstand me. While I don't think the system is the best option for the utilization of the planes and causes more trouble than it prevents, I have no wish to actually destroy the "system". I just don't want to see any reservation expanded on a server-wide basis to include any more mobs than those currently restricted.

If I'd wished to destroy the system I would have taken a few friends and kept Fear or Hate clear for a few weeks. The fastest way to destroy any player-made agreement is to consistently violate it.

Dd

Partha · Post by **Partha** » Sun Apr 27, 2003 11:06 pm

You may misunderstand me.

I can only go by the quotes that you post here. Your statement that those who sign up do nothing to support the system is simply incorrect - as you've just pointed out, the best way to destroy the system would be to openly abrogate it. Since they make the point of not doing that, they are certainly supporting the system. Whether or not Kestri or Jaradis are directly influenced by those who do so is another matter entirely.

My personal belief is that we are in the last days of reservations. Not because of the merits/demerits of such a system, but merely because the people who benefit from them are now clearly a minority and not only may but will be shunted aside by the more vocal majority favoring FCFS server wide. What I'll find interesting will be what happens as more and more guilds move up to the Elemental Planes level. Will there be attempts to block flagging except by the non raid method? Sadly, given human nature, I'm almost certain that will be the case. Of course, if then some form of 'reservation' is imposed, I'll be found dead of irony in my computer chair.

Post by **Ddrak** » Mon Apr 28, 2003 12:31 am

Your statement that those who sign up do nothing to support the system is simply incorrect - as you've just pointed out, the best way to destroy the system would be to openly abrogate it. Since they make the point of not doing that, they are certainly supporting the system.

There's many ways to destroy reservations. I mentioned the most direct way that *I* would go about it. The next best way is to abuse the system for protecting access to other mobs (ie this rant) which some people are claiming is the only point to reserve the planes. If that is, in fact, true then it will equally destroy the reservations.

Also, simply using a system in place isn't necessarily supporting it. If something is to your benefit then using the system is just acting in your own best interests (as you see them). You may feel that the system is actually giving you an unfair advantage over others in some way, or may even disagree with the system but don't break the "rules" so as not to rock the boat. Simply following a convention isn't support and should never be taken as such.

My personal belief is that we are in the last days of reservations. Not because of the merits/demerits of such a system, but merely because the people who benefit from them are now clearly a minority and not only may but will be shunted aside by the more vocal majority favoring FCFS server wide.

I seriously doubt it. Look how quickly the "for jaradis" thread died on the Brell Boards. There's a distinct apathy to the entire thing so it will continue as long as someone is happy to mod it. Honestly, if it came down to a vote of keep them or lose them I'd probably not vote because it doesn't really worry me either way (unless there was clear and rampant abuse that I could see). If it came to a vote of expanding them I would vocally vote "no".

What I'll find interesting will be what happens as more and more guilds move up to the Elemental Planes level. Will there be attempts to block flagging except by the non raid method? Sadly, given human nature, I'm almost certain that will be the case.

The mechanics of this are simply unworkable. The bottleneck mob (RZ) is on too fast a spawn cycle and requires too much effort to race to every cycle - especially when it means missing the races to the Elemental bosses. Still, I don't see more than 4 or maybe 5 guilds in the Elementals before the next high end expansion is released.

There will never be another server wide reservation system. It's simply out of the question - especially on the high end content. There may be rotations worked out privately between the guilds (such as exists in zones like VT at the moment) but there will never be a system made public for everyone. I am a huge fan of private rotations, just not public ones.

Dd

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