Curious

Grygonos Thunderwulf · Fri Jan 21, 2005 2:17 pm

Dear Embar,

Thanks sweetmeat,

-G

Post by **Relbeek Einre** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 2:27 pm

Excuse me while I fall over laughing.

Falundir X`Viento · Post by **Falundir X`Viento** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 2:45 pm

Better question. In all of history has protesting ever been proven to be an effective way of influencing the government's actions to get the outcome they want?

maltheos · Post by **maltheos** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 2:50 pm

Rsak wrote:Get over yourselves..

Excuse me for not being able to name additional conetentious areas of public outcry during the Ford administration. It is such key and vital information that volumes of books are devoted to the subject.

The war was still being fought when he became the President and was protested until the fall of Saigon if not later which was 8 months after he assumed office.

Go stroke your cocks elsewhere because the accurate point that was made answered the question.

If you are going to claim that the facts are on your side, be sure that the facts are on your side. Ford took office Aug 9, 1974 and the US oficially pulled its troops out of Vietnam on March 23, 1973, and stop bombing the North August 15, 1973.

We still had our Embasy there at the fall of Saigon, and we pulled out the last personel in 1975, but the Vietnam war was over and done with MONTHS before Ford took office. At least check your facts when you make a "I am right and you ar wrong posting".

Burz · Post by **Burz** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 2:52 pm

Rsak wrote:Nixon - Vietnam, Watergate
Ford - Vietnam
Carter - Oil shortages, Hostages in Mideast
Reagan - Iran Contra, Taxes
Bush - Taxes, Gulf War
Clinton - Ken Starr Investigations

Add LBJ~ Essentially didn't bother running in 68 cause of the protests.

Ford had 2 assassination attempts in just about 1 month (iirc) by crazy women in SF and Sacramento. But seriously - he should be loved cause he's a bumbling football player!

Partha · Post by **Partha** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 3:34 pm

Falundir X`Viento wrote:Better question. In all of history has protesting ever been proven to be an effective way of influencing the government's actions to get the outcome they want?

See: Ukraine. Also see: French Revolution.

superwalrus · Post by **superwalrus** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 4:30 pm

short answer: no.

The counter-culture movement of the 1960s all sold out. They either died of ODs, became bums, or went to work for major corporations and became Yuppies. Counter-culture people are some of the most despicable fucks in the world. They are the reason our world is so fucked up today, because they went off on a crusade and then just sort of gave up and joined the system they were fighting.

Walrus

Post by **Ddrak** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 4:34 pm

That seems like an awfully big generalization Walrus.

Post by **Relbeek Einre** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 4:42 pm

(Hint: Walrus is a troll.)

Rsak · Post by **Rsak** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 4:54 pm

At least check your facts when you make a "I am right and you ar wrong posting".

You might have a point if the facts in questions were even central to the point that was being made.

In this case it is not, but don't let that stop you from focusing on the tree while you ignore the forest.

Protests have occured in every presidental term in the time period that I mentioned. While I am not convinced that vietnam related protests were not still going on after Ford took office it really doesn't matter. If I was right or wrong on that single peice of information does not invalidate the point I was making.

So once again I have to recommend that you really need to get over yourselves!

Embar Angylwrath · Post by **Embar Angylwrath** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 5:01 pm

Post by **Relbeek Einre** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 5:09 pm

Dance monkey! Dance!

(Nice red X, Embar. Loser.)

Embar Angylwrath · Post by **Embar Angylwrath** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 5:34 pm

Click on the red x and select "view picture"

Embar Angylwrath · Post by **Embar Angylwrath** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 5:35 pm

Errr... "show picture" I mean

Gryphranger10 · Post by **Gryphranger10** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 8:36 pm

whenever that happens and i click show picture it never works

superwalrus · Post by **superwalrus** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 9:08 pm

generalization? for the purpose of this dicussion, no, but for purposes of the truth, yes.

The counterculture of the 1960s has become what it set out against: commercialized.
Here are some of the things that hippies fought against in the 60s:
Political Apathy: Worse today than in the 60s
Nuclear Proliferation: Worse today than in the 60s
War: Worse worldwide than in the 60s
Racial Equality: Half and half, minorities have more opportunites, but at the same time this has driven racism deeper into white people's psyche's, where it will fester and boil over eventually, the issue of race will eventually get very worse before it can get better. The solution the 60s provided is not the answer.

So what did the counterculture of the 1960s give us? They took a people that was proud of itself and its accomplishments that trusted its government (every single politician has always been bad, only difference in trusting them and distrusting them is how you feel about yourself in the morning) and made that people into a bunch of immoral, divided people. Instead of disagreeing about which party to vote, we disagree about basic fundamentals of our form of democracy. The sexual revolution of the 60s fed right into the STD crisis of the 1980s. More open views on sex has lead to exponentially higher teen pregnancies. The "okayness" of drugs has lead to the introduction of very very harmful drugs like crack and heroine into the homes of everyday people.

The 1960s were so crazy that it was fun while it lasted but it could never last. Unfortunately, we have had to do damage control ever since that decade.

Some of you might think that we were given more freedom because of the ideas that surfaced in the 60s, but I would disagree. We lost something, our national identity, and so far we have been very unsuccessful at getting it back.

Walrus

Post by **Ddrak** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 9:40 pm

You're blaming the symptom, not the cause. The whole Vietnam War debacle coupled with Nixon's bullshit destroyed the trust and belief that Americans had as a nation. The 60s/70s hippies were founded from the growth of that mistrust, not the cause of it.

The 80s did a lot to re-establish the US belief in itself, but I fear the Iraq war and neoconservatism will ultimately destroy it again.

Dd

Falundir X`Viento · Post by **Falundir X`Viento** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 9:46 pm

Partha wrote:
See: Ukraine. Also see: French Revolution.

Thanks for pointing those out Partha. I did some digging and the Ukraine election issue (if this was what you were referring to) seemed to be actually influenced from international pressure more so than the people who camped at Independance Square.

I never studied the French Revolution in school, and the online resources I found were a bit lacking. Since the resources leave a bit to be desired I might need you to fill in the blanks I'm missing, but it seemed more like a congressional body was formed to reform the financial system in France, yet went beyond these boundries starting with the creation of their 'human rights doctrine'. After that it just seemed like a string of acts passed that eventually resulted in the king being dethroned and France evolving. I didn't see any statements of protest that influenced the government (not that there weren't any), so if there was something I missed please feel free to fill in the gaps. Quite interested to know honestly.

Post by **Ddrak** » Fri Jan 21, 2005 11:55 pm

I don't think you'll ever find protests as the sole reason, but they certainly make a decent supporting argument for government change in many cases.

Of course, in others they are just annoying.

Dd

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