Navy Seals Free Hostage

[Fallakin Kuvari]

I heard the shots came from 150 yards and that it was 4 shots (3 headshots and the 4th wounded).

[Embar Angylwrath]

Three shots, three kills (as reported by the Vice Admiral). The wounded guy was already aboard the Bainbridge. He was wounded by a knife when the pirates first stormed the ship. In fact he was helping the US talk to the pirates.

The life boat was being towed behind the Bainbridge, about 100 feet off the stern fantail. So no, it wasn't a 150 yard shot.

[Fallakin Kuvari]

Thanks Embar.

[Select]

Anyone else think its some fucking badass marksmenship to take out three pirates with three headshots (they were all headshots.. wow!), at night, in roughening seas, with those three Somali heads moving in 3 axis (pitch, yaw and roll). Sure, it was only a 30 yard shot, but still...

Nah, the pirates were unaware, unskilled, sitting ducks. With technology, the snipers could see pretty well. 30 yards and the bobbing would fall into a pattern. I'm sure they've been trained to shoot MUCH more difficult targets and I bet these guys would shrug this off. The hardest part was probably not falling asleep

[Torakus]

The problem isn't going to be solved by sinking their ships. The boats these pirates are using are small, cheap, and replaceable, and the risk vs. reward ensures an endless supply of manpower. Here's an article about the problem from last year.

I am not talking about the skiffs. Those have very limited range and are useless without the mother ships, which are mostly fishing boats. The pirates ability to get hundreds of miles out to sea depends on those mother ships. Since the fishing economy of Somalia has collapsed, due in large part to the piracy, they are guaranteed to have plenty of mother ships to use. Frankly I don't see a solution other than scuttling the mother ships that we catch supporting pirates. It would be nice to have a Somali govt as a partner, but Partha is quite correct in fixing my earlier post to say that no real govt exists in Somali.

As a retired sailor I dread the day we put something like Goal Keeper or Phalanx systems on merchant vessels. The people on these ships are professional mariners, but they are hardly trained to make good engagement decisions. And that type of training doesn't come from a 40 hour class. It comes from years and years of experience and training. That is why the most junior Navy ship commanders come in at just under 20 years of service. Besides we have tried it with our own supply ships transiting through the gulf and we found that the civilians were quite trigger happy. Best to leave the ROE decisions to the professionals. If we want them to have self defense forces, then lets pull all of the Navy officers and enlisted personnel currently assigned as Individual Augmentees to the Army and Marine Corps in Iraq and Afghanistan and re-tool, re-train and re-assign them to U.S. flagged merchant vessels transiting these seas. For a nominal charge and no insurance overhead, professional self defense forces! Wanna bet a shit load of companies don't immediately re-flag? Nice little bonus to the U.S. economy, though we might end up bankrupting Liberia and Panama.

Those shots were pretty tough. That ship is pitching up and down and rolling side to side, and with very little way on those motions are exaggerated quite a lot, and can be even worse if it has been a few days since their last refueling. Add to that, if they trailing one shaft, the rotation of the other will make the stern walk to that side, adding another element to the motion. All of that, and the apparent wind (true wind + the wind the ship is creating both by its motion and its structure) make for a very difficult shot. Additionally, I am assuming Bainbridge's lighting was configured for towing operations. That would make the use of night vision less than optimal, since the lights would tend to make them bloom. The operators who took those shots are studs and I salute them.

Tora

[Ddrak]

Arming potential piracy targets with firepower to repel/sink the pirates changes the risk/reward calculation. If pirates begin to understand that they will most likely die in a piracy attempt, maybe they go back to fishing for a living.

If you do that, you've made the merchant ships legitimate military targets and are supplying defense equipment to non-military people who could trivially just sell the ship to, say, pirates.

Do you really want Phalanxes on the black arms market?

Dd

[Trollbait]

Nah, the pirates were unaware, unskilled, sitting ducks. With technology, the snipers could see pretty well. 30 yards and the bobbing would fall into a pattern. I'm sure they've been trained to shoot MUCH more difficult targets and I bet these guys would shrug this off. The hardest part was probably not falling asleep

When you know nothing about a subject, Select, it is best to say nothing. As a college educated girl I thought you would know that.

You have clearly watched too many movies.

The shots were made under the worst conditions I have heard of in such an operation. The scenario of 3 ultimately nearly simultaneous kill shots on 6 foot seas at night is exceptional.

I sincerely doubt any of the operators were in danger of falling asleep.

[Select]

When you know nothing about a subject, Select, it is best to say nothing. As a college educated girl I thought you would know that.

I go by friends. None are SEALS, but I have a few enlisted friends. They say these guys are trained well enough and are skilled enough that the situation wouldn't be a big deal to them. Though, I should ask Sumdain since he's getting up there Navy-wise and would probably know best - better than friends who haven't been in as long.

[Klast Brell]

I found more details. It really makes me wonder why more of the story is not being publicized.
The pirates boat ran out of fuel. They were adrift and the navy offered to tow them to calmer waters. The navy ship was towing the pirate vessel on a 100 foot line. I imagine this was part of a set up. Now the pirates were being kept close by in a relatively stable position compared to the Navy ship. After sunset snipers with night vision scopes set up at the back of the ship and waited for a time when they had a clear shot on all 3 pirates at once. "Boom Headshot"

It's all over CNN.. so I don't know why you say its isn't being publicized. They have interviews with the Rear Admiral, pictures of the boat being towed, and a graphical representation of how it all went down. (Which is pretty much how you understand it)

Anyone else think its some fucking badass marksmenship to take out three pirates with three headshots (they were all headshots.. wow!), at night, in roughening seas, with those three Somali heads moving in 3 axis (pitch, yaw and roll). Sure, it was only a 30 yard shot, but still...

I was going off of what was on the news Sunday Morning. that was the last chance I had to hear anything about it. My bad for not paying more attention.

[Embar Angylwrath]

When you know nothing about a subject, Select, it is best to say nothing. As a college educated girl I thought you would know that.

I go by friends. None are SEALS, but I have a few enlisted friends. They say these guys are trained well enough and are skilled enough that the situation wouldn't be a big deal to them. Though, I should ask Sumdain since he's getting up there Navy-wise and would probably know best - better than friends who haven't been in as long.

The Vice Admiral who was commenting to the news even remarked about how difficult and how extraordinary those shots were. He wasn't faking it either. You could clearly see his face lose it's otherwise "Vice Admiral stoic cool" and experience a moment of wonder and awe when he recounted those shots.

As was noted before, they were three simultaneous shots each with a high failure chance because of the shooting conditions. Usually, a sniper has the ability to make himslef and therefore his rifle, immobile. The fact that all three shooters were positioned on the stern fantail means they were moving in three axis as well as the pirates, for a total of simulataneous shots fired in a mobile six axis environment. At night. With weird winds. In air density that is unlike anywhere else in the world (due to the water spray and salt saturation in the air). Then there was the "whack-a-mole"instant when all three heads presented themselves as targets, and finally, the snap command of the commander to take the shot, and all three shooters responding immediately to the command.

This will probably end up as a textbook case in sniper school.

Now go ahead and tell us what you know from your friends that allows you to make your statement. I guarantee none of your friends are snipers or special ops. I have a few that are ex-both. They can't talk about it without their jaws hitting the floor.

They do say though that because of the relatively short distance, the bullet had less time in the air, and therefore less time to be affected by wind and coreolis (which really only affects long north-south shots). The bigger thing is that all three targets and all three shooters were moving in 3 axis simultaneously.

[Select]

Now go ahead and tell us what you know from your friends that allows you to make your statement.

I did.

Since I don't know anything on this subject, I went by what they said, because I'd assume they're more informed. Though, a uniform never made anyone honest, humble, or informed. If the Vice Admiral made those statements, that's far more credible and I'll admit to being wrong and listening to the wrong sources.

[Taxious]

I'll admit to being wrong

[Select]

Oh shit, you know it's legit!

[Klast Brell]

When you know nothing about a subject, Select, it is best to say nothing. As a college educated girl I thought you would know that.

I go by friends. None are SEALS, but I have a few enlisted friends. They say these guys are trained well enough and are skilled enough that the situation wouldn't be a big deal to them. Though, I should ask Sumdain since he's getting up there Navy-wise and would probably know best - better than friends who haven't been in as long.

The Vice Admiral who was commenting to the news even remarked about how difficult and how extraordinary those shots were. He wasn't faking it either. You could clearly see his face lose it's otherwise "Vice Admiral stoic cool" and experience a moment of wonder and awe when he recounted those shots.

As was noted before, they were three simultaneous shots each with a high failure chance because of the shooting conditions. Usually, a sniper has the ability to make himslef and therefore his rifle, immobile. The fact that all three shooters were positioned on the stern fantail means they were moving in three axis as well as the pirates, for a total of simulataneous shots fired in a mobile six axis environment. At night. With weird winds. In air density that is unlike anywhere else in the world (due to the water spray and salt saturation in the air). Then there was the "whack-a-mole"instant when all three heads presented themselves as targets, and finally, the snap command of the commander to take the shot, and all three shooters responding immediately to the command.

This will probably end up as a textbook case in sniper school.

Now go ahead and tell us what you know from your friends that allows you to make your statement. I guarantee none of your friends are snipers or special ops. I have a few that are ex-both. They can't talk about it without their jaws hitting the floor.

They do say though that because of the relatively short distance, the bullet had less time in the air, and therefore less time to be affected by wind and coreolis (which really only affects long north-south shots). The bigger thing is that all three targets and all three shooters were moving in 3 axis simultaneously.

Absolutely an impressive set of shots. No question about it. But the range was 100 feet. Pretty short range for a sniper. I doubt that air density and salt content had much of an effect.

[Garrdor]

COUNTER TERRORISTS WIN

[Mukik]

What era were these ex spec ops/snipers? Gotta remember communication and planning were probably the biggest key, and what impresses me more is not the head shots themselves, but the TEAMWORK involved. I think the services are probably alot more skilled / advanced then when I was in back in the late 80's early 90s
good job gentlemen.

[Klast Brell]

Absolutely amazing team work. Any one of them could have waited for a good shot and taken it. But to coordinate waiting for that brief moment when they all had good shots at the exact same time and firing in unison. Just wow.

[Partha]

I'm surprised there was no screaming about the waste of taxpayer dollars involved in towing terrorist boats around.

[Embar Angylwrath]

I'm surprised there was no screaming about the waste of taxpayer dollars involved in towing terrorist boats around.

I don't see it that way. I see it as just another live-fire training tool.

[Embar Angylwrath]

Arming potential piracy targets with firepower to repel/sink the pirates changes the risk/reward calculation. If pirates begin to understand that they will most likely die in a piracy attempt, maybe they go back to fishing for a living.

If you do that, you've made the merchant ships legitimate military targets and are supplying defense equipment to non-military people who could trivially just sell the ship to, say, pirates.

Do you really want Phalanxes on the black arms market?

Dd

So much wrong with this post...

Arming a merchant ship doesn't make it an automatic military target. The definition of "military target' differs from country to country. And the ROEs for military engagement on a military target differ as well (and change from time to time). As an example, there are cruise ships today that have sonic weapons that aren't considered military targets.

Pirates can't afford to buy a ship, that's why they try to steal them. There is no market (at least to pirates) for a ship (the larger cost) and the weapons (the smaller cost).

Also, just about any weapon short of tactical nukes is available on the arms market. Arming merchant ships wouldn't change that. And the Phalanx system is nothing more than a M61 Vulcan slaved to a maritime radar and tracking system.

How about this? US and NATO flagged ships would be equipped with the Phalanx system, on the most seaward point of the bow, stern, starboard-side and port-side. These systems would be controlled and operated remotely by a command of the US military (or neutral NATO maritime coalition). They could also be equipped with a self-destruct device that would be triggered both remotely or shipboard if command thought the capture of the system was imminent. And they could also be mounted on extension platforms, away from the main hull structure, so a few explosive bolts would send them into the deep.

There are many, many, many ways to arm the ships and keep the defense systems protected (or rendered useless) to an attacking force.

And shit, if some pirates are able to withstand a defense posture from a Phalanx, better just give them the ship, because nothing will help except maybe Kryptonite.

Oh... and sink the mother ships. They can't operate far into the Aden without the motherships. Those small attack boats just don't have the range to operate from shore.