Sex Slaves

[Taxious]

Yep... we add about 200,000 people per day to the planet. The plight of a single human is wrenching, its visceral, it moves people because we can identify with it... but its absolutely meaningless on the grand scale of things.

It's interesting to hear this come from you considering your "everyone-is-special-pro-life" statements in other threads.

How do you find that interesting?

Acknowledging that a persons life is meaningless "on the grand scale of things" and thinking "everyone is special" seem like very contradicting view points to me.

[Embar Angylwrath]

Ok, I see how you could take it that way. My response was meant to be taken in context. This isn't a thread about the value of human life. Its a thread about the pros and cons of intervention in another country's affiars because of sex slavery. My point is that its rather stupid to ignore the larger issues affecting more humans, (which is consistant with my stance on the value of human life). If you can save a few thousand, or save a few million, I say save the few million.

[Taxious]

Ok, I see how you could take it that way. My response was meant to be taken in context. This isn't a thread about the value of human life. Its a thread about the pros and cons of intervention in another country's affiars because of sex slavery. My point is that its rather stupid to ignore the larger issues affecting more humans, (which is consistant with my stance on the value of human life). If you can save a few thousand, or save a few million, I say save the few million.

Ah, that makes sense.

[Alluveal]

Some of the governments are corrupt--they take bribes, or (as Dd stated,) haven't the funds for a solid police force. Sometimes invasion is a viable option, in my mind, especially where things like genocide and this sort of thing takes place. It shouldn't be the US marching in, but rather something sanctioned by the UN or such (if any such thing would ever happen.)

Garrdor and I have work. We need to build a Fremen-type unit of super Cambodian ninjas and attack through stealth, cutting off the manhoods of those in charge and feeding them to the dogs . . . all while riding sandworms of course.

In seriousness, stories like this always hurt to read because you feel helpless. There are organizations out there for human rights and womens' rights that folks could look into. They have their own methods and often stage "break-ins" to free some of these girls from slavery. It is something . . .

[Minute]

Rats, I clicked on this thread thinking it was someone advertising! Weak!

[Garrdor]

Poor Minute and his Qeynos Sewer hooker addiction.

[Select]

Anyone going to Cambodia to pay for sex really isn't thinking about the plight of the women they shag. Hell, they're not even thinking about themselves in a critical manner given the insanely high chances of catching an STD and the moderate chances of serving prison time when they get back to the US (it's illegal remember to go overseas for the purpose of child sex, and being a registered sex offender ends your free life forever). To suggest that some campaign pointing out that these women are treated badly is going to deter the Johns is really naive and quite frankly deserves derision for the thought. If anything it might give a few ideas of "hey - hot asian chicks for a couple of bucks!" which compounds the problems.

You are sitting there saying "how things are" when I acknowledged them already.

To suggest that some campaign pointing out that these women are treated badly is going to deter the Johns

It is a rare and a small chance that it'll deter anyone. Like I said, "I know most tourists who go and pay don't give a shit."
The important thing about of raising awareness: "To change anyone's perspective is important. To raise someone knowing the extent and consequences of this can create sympathy." Don't raise children so they grow up knowing it exists and it's a "bad thing", but raise them so they understand the consequences of rape and sexual assault. For example, most people my age know that rape is "bad" and causes emotional damage and sometimes is brutal and needs medical attention. One example: few young women my age and (I'm willing to bet) even fewer young men know what a rectovaginal fistula is unless they've taken the time to research it themselves. Knowing my generation, most haven't. That is just one possible physical consequence. If young men understand the extent of what exactly happens to rape victims over hearing it's just "bad" and it "hurts" them, it can create more sympathy, more understanding, and prevent some attacks.

If anything it might give a few ideas of "hey - hot asian chicks for a couple of bucks!" which compounds the problems.

What a terrible point. That suggests that we shouldn't raise awareness about any crime because it will give people "ideas". Most people at least know it exists in the world. It's not some secret society.

What are they gonna raid in the US or Australia? Seriously - I don't get what you're trying to do here. The net on sex offenders and child kidnappers is insanely tight in first world countries. To suggest "more should be done inside countries like the US and Australia because there's child sex slaves in Cambodia" is just strange.

There are slaves in our own countries. Slaves who have been kidnapped, imported, and are held and passed around in cities. Typically, they can't speak English well if at all and any hope of trying to get help is beaten out of them. Why are you stuck on the idea that Cambodia is a pen and everything is confined there? Is that what makes you sleep better at night? That the internationally recognized borders of Cambodia act as a fence? What can be raided in the U.S. or Australia? Really? The slaves kept in our own backyards, that's what.

Nah, the real problem in Africa isn't the sex slaves. It's the fact that AIDS is still seen as a divine punishment in most cases and people "won't get it if they're good people". Toss in the extreme anti-condom mentality that exists over there. Add to that the amount of rape that goes on in the tribal villages and the mentality of many with AIDS that they're gonna take out as many others as possible, the contribution of sex slaves is really quite minimal.

I acknowledged the real problem: "It comes down to protection and sex education".
Which you then repeated and made much longer - how unnecessary. One thing you forgot is that there's a belief that having sex with virgins will cure you.

You're making it up. Sex crimes are handled very seriously in the first world (ie places that aren't "live through this week").

Who the hell said "first world"? I was talking about the world. "Look how sex crimes are handled in places where it isn't 'live through this week'"
Not every area of every third world country is "live through this week". To pull it back out of the just the third world and bring it back to a global scale, look at crimes against women who do well for themselves (not live through this week) in larger cities in Iran and India and Russia and China and Japan. Sex crimes, especially sexual assault, are not taken very seriously. A mindset exists.

You care more about 1 live sex slave than you do about a thousand people dying of bad water? What... The... Fuck...?

You dislike my perspective so much, you're doing what you can to twist it to the extremes. I said no such thing and you know it. My opinion is that human rights and how we treat each other is more important than natural causes, unless those causes are threatening to wipe out a couple billion of us. That is not saying that research and prevention for natural causes shouldn't exist, but my opinion is that it's a greater tragedy when we treat each other badly and become stagnant. You want priorities, I have mine. War, genocide, slavery, rape, and so on take priority for me over disease and natural disasters. Unfortunately, the world isn't ideal, and natural selection has been twisted to something like capitalist selection.

[Harlowe]

It seems like you've become so defensive you refuse to consider what he is saying.

[Select]

Building up the economy can't be the only solution. This is a capitalist world. Someone will always be on the bottom, someone will always be poor and desperate. It's nice to build up the economy, but we can't make everyone first world middle class unless the world's economy works differently.

[Fallakin Kuvari]

Theres more pressing matters in the world than some sex slaves in third world countries, imo. Maybe you should direct your retarded liberal ideals towards them...

Theres always global warming you could take an interest in.


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[Fallakin Kuvari]

No escape from your fate
Destined to be mine
Every night I wait to see
In the night, watching
Stalking your every move
I know when you're alone
All alone

Tied tight to the bed
Legs spread open
Bruised flesh, lacerations
Skin stained with blood
I'm the only one you love
I feel her heart beating
My knife deep inside
Her crotch is bleeding

She liked the way it felt inside her
Fucking her, harder, harder

She liked the way it felt inside her
Fucking her, harder, harder

Stick it in
Rip the skin
Carve and twist
Torn flesh
From behind
I cut her crotch
In her ass
I stuck my cock
Killing as I cum

[Minute]

WTF

[Arkaron]

Select does have a point in that capitalism functions via displacement: groups move up the ladder or have access to different kinds of occupations because someone 'lower' is able to replace them in say, factory work, sweatshops, etc. But, it is an economic problem. The sex trade always has a gigantic profit margin because the 'maintenance' of human life is cheap. It's not much of a life, but there it is.

Frankly, the best thing for women in the sex trade would be to legalize the sex industry. Sure, illegal sex will always be cheaper, but the sex tourism that Select is referencing would be better off if it were regulated with STD/STI screening. When you drive things underground is when women find themselves in the greatest danger.

[Alluveal]

WTF

Yeah, seriously?

[Ddrak]

You are sitting there saying "how things are" when I acknowledged them already.

No, you didn't. You keep up with the fantasy that telling people how bad rape and abuse are will somehow turn the men that do these things into more caring and feeling people. It shows you fundamentally don't understand the actual motivation behind rape and abuse, and it sure as hell doesn't involve the man not being told how much it hurts.

Look, it's nice and all that you want to reduce rape and abuse but you really need to educate yourself on the motivations behind them if you are seriously going to make any sort of difference. Someone raping someone else isn't going to be affected by knowing about whatever fancy medical terms you want to throw around. A rapist really doesn't stop and think "Hmm... this is actually a person here, and maybe it's going to cause physical issues so perhaps I'd better not".

If anything it might give a few ideas of "hey - hot asian chicks for a couple of bucks!" which compounds the problems.

What a terrible point. That suggests that we shouldn't raise awareness about any crime because it will give people "ideas". Most people at least know it exists in the world. It's not some secret society.

No - it suggests you should carefully consider the methods of raising awareness and what the effects are. Did you notice that the police don't "raise awareness of the drug problem" by telling you where and how much you can get crack cocaine for? Same deal here.

There are slaves in our own countries. Slaves who have been kidnapped, imported, and are held and passed around in cities. Typically, they can't speak English well if at all and any hope of trying to get help is beaten out of them. Why are you stuck on the idea that Cambodia is a pen and everything is confined there? Is that what makes you sleep better at night? That the internationally recognized borders of Cambodia act as a fence? What can be raided in the U.S. or Australia? Really? The slaves kept in our own backyards, that's what.

So you're trying to say that the police turn a blind eye in Australia and the US to sex slaves? Seriously, you're just posting insanity now. Sex slaves are one hell of a hot button issue that will cause the FBI and AFP to drop about anything else to try to solve. Essentially you're making shit up now.

Again, I ask what exactly are you saying can be done in the US or Australia that isn't already being done?

I acknowledged the real problem: "It comes down to protection and sex education".

No, you went for the sex slave angle, so whether you "acknowledged" it or not you went down the wrong track. Stop being stupid and "acknowledge" you just threw sex slaves it to try to make a point where it wasn't even remotely close to the real problem.

Who the hell said "first world"? I was talking about the world. "Look how sex crimes are handled in places where it isn't 'live through this week'"

If it isn't "live through this week" then it isn't really the third world.

You care more about 1 live sex slave than you do about a thousand people dying of bad water? What... The... Fuck...?

You dislike my perspective so much, you're doing what you can to twist it to the extremes. I said no such thing and you know it.

I don't dislike your perspective. I just think it's completely naive and uneducated. It's the perspective of someone who's all full of righteous "do good" attitudes and thinks they'll change the world through feelings. It's a perspective born of not understanding human nature and knowing absolutely nothing of the evil and vice that actually exists out there.

You said exactly what I said you did. You literally said that a few thousand sex slaves are more important in your mind than a few million dying of starvation, disease and other "natural" causes. You care more about 1 live sex slave than a thousand people dying of poisoned water. Your words, not mine. I just paraphrased to show you your perspective. If you don't like it, perhaps the fault is with you and not me.

War, genocide, slavery, rape, and so on take priority for me over disease and natural disasters. Unfortunately, the world isn't ideal, and natural selection has been twisted to something like capitalist selection.

Disease and hunger are the biggest killers in the world and tend to have the same root cause as war, genocide, slavery and rape: poverty. Trying to fix the symptoms without fixing the problem is like treating ebola with band-aids. It might make you feel good for "doing something" but it sure doesn't change anything fundamentally. If you want to bitch about "capitalist selection" then you're really agreeing with me and rejecting your own prioritization because the real goal is to lift those nations to a level where people can start to care about each other because they have some security in their own well being. Until you do that - you're not fixing a damn thing and what's more you're wasting effort on pointlessness.

Dd

[Select]

and it sure as hell doesn't involve the man not being told how much it hurts.

Which is why you don't tell the man who can't be changed; you tell the child and hope the child grows up well.

No - it suggests you should carefully consider the methods of raising awareness and what the effects are. Did you notice that the police don't "raise awareness of the drug problem" by telling you where and how much you can get crack cocaine for? Same deal here.

They tell you the effects and what the consequences are that make it so "bad". Same deal here.

Again, I ask what exactly are you saying can be done in the US or Australia that isn't already being done?

I never said they turn a blind eye. Raids should increase and awareness should increase. Nations can work together so you don't have kidnappers and slaves moving over borders or flying to and fro as easily.

If it isn't "live through this week" then it isn't really the third world.

Again, I said, "I was talking about the world." because it isn't isolated.

If it isn't "live through this week" then it isn't really the third world.

This says that anyone doing well for themselves in a third world country isn't really in the third world. Not every last person is starving. Most, sure, but not every last person.

Disease and hunger are the biggest killers in the world and tend to have the same root cause as war, genocide, slavery and rape: poverty.

That's the chicken and the egg. Which came first? They can lead to poverty and poverty can lead to them.

the real goal is to lift those nations to a level where people can start to care about each other because they have some security in their own well being. Until you do that - you're not fixing a damn thing and what's more you're wasting effort on pointlessness.

Someone else will just end up in that situation. Or someone 'lifted up' will want more and take from their neighbor, impoverishing their neighbor. It endlessly shifts.

Frankly, the best thing for women in the sex trade would be to legalize the sex industry. Sure, illegal sex will always be cheaper, but the sex tourism that Select is referencing would be better off if it were regulated with STD/STI screening. When you drive things underground is when women find themselves in the greatest danger.

Arkaron is right. I hate prostitution. Willing or slave, I hate it, but it is more dangerous for women when it's underground. Sweden and Scotland had recent laws which pushed it underground and the number of rapes and murders went up. England just passed or is passing similar laws which will push it underground and people are wondering why they haven't looked at what's happened already. I reluctantly support legalizing the sex industry because I want the women to be safe.

[Ddrak]

Woohoo - chopshop posting!

Which is why you don't tell the man who can't be changed; you tell the child and hope the child grows up well.

So you take preteen boys and tell them explicitly about vaginal injuries? That's what you see as the issue? That preteens aren't exposed enough to sexual violence to grow up knowing it's bad?

Psychological studies pretty much all indicate that exposure to violence generates an insulation from it. If what you're describing worked then you'd expect kids that grow up in violent environments where the men are beating their wives to see the consequences and reject it in their lives when the very opposite is true - kids that grow up in abusive homes tend to be abusive themselves.

Again, I think you're making things up as you go and not actually looking into the realities of the situation. Exposing children to violence isn't the solution.

They tell you the effects and what the consequences are that make it so "bad". Same deal here.

That's not what you're recommending. You're talking about explicitly saying where and when these women are enslaved. You're talk about explicit medical imagery. Suddenly you jump back to the safeness of non-specific "effects and consequences" that are edited to not really show everything.

You're not based in reality. You have this idealized view of things and are trying to mold the world to fit your view. It's pretty common but wrong.

Again, I ask what exactly are you saying can be done in the US or Australia that isn't already being done?

I never said they turn a blind eye. Raids should increase and awareness should increase. Nations can work together so you don't have kidnappers and slaves moving over borders or flying to and fro as easily.

So easily? You're making shit up, Select. Kidnappers do NOT move easily around the US and Australia. Kidnapping alone is one of the rarest crimes in both our countries and you think "raids should increase". Exactly where should raids increase because I can assure you that kidnapping is absolutely the top priority of federal level police agencies.

You're not based in reality and have backed yourself into a corner here with some daft hypothesis that there's some "sex slave kidnapping" problem in Australia and the US. You're wrong.

I said, "I was talking about the world." because it isn't isolated.

No - you changed your story. You were explicitly talking about "our countries" and then when you dug yourself into a hole you magically really were talking about "the world". You're making shit up to fit your idealized do-good dreams.

If it isn't "live through this week" then it isn't really the third world.

This says that anyone doing well for themselves in a third world country isn't really in the third world. Not every last person is starving. Most, sure, but not every last person.

Most of the ones not starving are there because they are exploiting the others. The ones that are in that position without exploitation are so rare they don't have the ability to enact social change. That's a third world country. How are you going to fix that without national economic improvement?

Disease and hunger are the biggest killers in the world and tend to have the same root cause as war, genocide, slavery and rape: poverty.

That's the chicken and the egg. Which came first? They can lead to poverty and poverty can lead to them.

Poverty, and more specifically gross inequalities in wealth between the small number of wealthy and large numbers of poor came first. It's only "chicken and egg" if you don't get economics.

the real goal is to lift those nations to a level where people can start to care about each other because they have some security in their own well being. Until you do that - you're not fixing a damn thing and what's more you're wasting effort on pointlessness.

Someone else will just end up in that situation. Or someone 'lifted up' will want more and take from their neighbor, impoverishing their neighbor. It endlessly shifts.

No. Economics isn't a zero-sum game. You're making stuff up again to fit your views rather than adjusting your views to fit reality.

Dd

[Arkaron]

I'm trying to come up with a book to recommend that will possibly help explain this that I don't have some problem with.

[Mukik]

there are sex slaves in the states. If you really looked, you would easily find them. And the ironic part of it is..I am sure the cops have too. Thing is, there will always be a crimminal element in a free market society. Denver is a funny city. If its not in their face, its not a problem. Yet I knew of places where you could get or do anything you really wanted to if you knew the right people or had the cash to do so.

I cant speak for Aus, but here in the states, money always has talked over everything else.

[Alluveal]

When you have 5000 cops and 1 million people, it's hard to catch everything. And chances are, the cops are prioritizing things, which is kind of sad in and of itself. We need Ice-T from SVU to come in a whoop some ass.