Is McCain losing his mind?

[Embar Angylwrath]

How many times does he have to say experience is not the issue and actually Obama has traveled, he has interacted with other nations. He has taken an interest in the world around him. Palin just got a passport like last year and responds "you can see Russia from some parts of Alaska" (no joke) when she was asked.

Obama has standing and respect in the international arena whether you want to see it or not.

Consider this, Harlowe.

Maybe Palin just doesn't know how to play the game yet. Maybe she's too fresh, too new, too inexperienced in the nuance of the political game. Seems to me you're looking for more of the same 'ol same 'ol.

I'm not saying Palin is the be all end all.. clearly she needs some polish. But are you dismissing her because she isn't feeding you the pablum defined by the extant political establishment?

Seems to me you rail against the powers that be, but then step back from change because it doesn't fit the powers that be.

[Harlowe]

This woman just can't stop lying. God she's an idiot.

http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpoints ... pay_cu.php


Give me a break Embar, she hasn't learned how to bullshit enough????

Sorry, but even O'Reilly feels Obama is a sincere guy and believes him. He doesn't agree with him, but he believes Obama is sincere.

[Lurker]

Maybe Palin just doesn't know how to play the game yet. Maybe she's too fresh, too new, too inexperienced in the nuance of the political game. Seems to me you're looking for more of the same 'ol same 'ol.

Nice fantasy world you choose to live in. You are worse than a starry eyed flower child. Palin is hardly a fresh faced neophyte. You obviously haven't been paying any attention to the news stories about her vindictive slash and burn style of governing or her penchant for attempting to force her fringe beliefs on the public.

[Embar Angylwrath]

What Harlowe said.

On one side you have Obama, who spoke out against the war in Iraq before it was authorized, listing all the reasons it was wrong to invade and was proved right even in hindsight, and on the other side you have Palin, who four years into the conflict admitted she hasn't given it a lot of thought.

Cue Embar with same question about both having no experience!

I'd rather neither take the top spot. And if you elect McCain, neither will.

[Harlowe]

McCain the sleazy weasel without an ounce of diplomacy running in his veins, the idiot that championed deregulation along with Phil Gramm? Oh yea, that will do wonders for the economy.

[Embar Angylwrath]

Maybe Palin just doesn't know how to play the game yet. Maybe she's too fresh, too new, too inexperienced in the nuance of the political game. Seems to me you're looking for more of the same 'ol same 'ol.

Nice fantasy world you choose to live in. You are worse than a starry eyed flower child. Palin is hardly a fresh faced neophyte. You obviously haven't been paying any attention to the news stories about her vindictive slash and burn style of governing or her penchant for attempting to force her fringe beliefs on the public.

Slash and burn.. hyperbole, thy name is Lurker.

[Harlowe]

Embar,
You are in a deep state of denial about Palin. You aren't even paying attention to what is coming out. You just swallowed what you heard the first week then plugged your ears and hummed a mantra about the mean ol' press picking on McCain/Palin.

She's a joke. She left her town over $20million in debt, she is lying about everything she is claiming on the road. She is being vetted now and it's bad...it's a public, international and fiscal fucking nightmare.

[Embar Angylwrath]

Harlowe -

I never endorsed Palin. I think I'm on record as saying I can't stomack voting for either ticket.

All I'm saying is Palin, as a VP candidate, is being held to a higher standard than Obama, the man running for the chair. Obama is a junior Senator, no exec experience. Palin is a relatively new governor, with some exec experience. Neither has any measurable foreign policy experience.

Seems to me people are pitting Obama against Palin. Kinda odd, don't you think? That Palin seems to have some kind of carrying power that the Dems seem to think they must counter? That a VP candidate is a threat to the Pres candidate? It really doesn't matter what a VP candidate brings or doesn't bring to the table. If a VP candidate can shape the message, and cause the Obama campaign to come off-message to counter her (Obama spent the first 10 minutes of his Larry King thing discussing Palin).. what's that say about the sentiment of America? Is Obama's candidcacy so weak they need to respond to a VP candidate?

Say what you will about Palin, but so far, she's been able to turn the American discussion to a new angle, and forced the Obama campaign to respond. She only has the power that America gives her. So what does that say about the expectations and wishes of America?

[Lurker]

Seems to me people are pitting Obama against Palin. Kinda odd, don't you think? That Palin seems to have some kind of carrying power that the Dems seem to think they must counter? That a VP candidate is a threat to the Pres candidate? ... Is Obama's candidcacy so weak they need to respond to a VP candidate?

It's not that hard to figure out, Embar. Let me spell it out for you.

The VP candidate (Palin) has totally overshadowed the Pres Candidate (McCain). At the same time, the McCain campaign has tried to fabricate a resume and character profile for the VP candidate. Some morons have eaten that up. Most haven't as evidenced by her collapsing favorability rating. So, since Palin is all that's propping up McCains candidacy at this point, OF COURSE the Dems are going to respond to the never ending stream of bullshit pouring out of that campaign. And Obama has been hammering McCain and the failed Republican ideology at the same time.

That's a sign of weakness for McCain, not Obama.

Say what you will about Palin, but so far, she's been able to turn the American discussion to a new angle, and forced the Obama campaign to respond. She only has the power that America gives her.

As previously stated, Palin's favoribility went from a net positive of 17 points to a net negative of 4 in about a week. So maybe there's hope for America yet.

[Ddrak]

All I'm saying is Palin, as a VP candidate, is being held to a higher standard than Obama, the man running for the chair.

Not that I've seen. Palin has demonstrated far less interest in foreign policy than Obama, so she fails completely on that count. Add in the fact that Obama has a significant amount of respect internationally while Palin has about the same respect Monica Lewinsky held and I don't see how you can remotely think Palin could stand up to Obama on any count other than ratio of boobs to brains.

Seems to me people are pitting Obama against Palin. Kinda odd, don't you think?

That's what the GOP put her in to do - counter the fact they had nothing to run against Obama's attractiveness to the media. Why would you think it odd that when she's put in a position to pit herself against Obama that people take that very comparison and show her lacking in pretty much every way?

Say what you will about Palin, but so far, she's been able to turn the American discussion to a new angle, and forced the Obama campaign to respond. She only has the power that America gives her. So what does that say about the expectations and wishes of America?

That they are fickle and shallow?

Seriously though, she garnered a lot of attention for a week and now she's collapsing as the media attention starts searching for something deeper than "zomg ex-miss-alaska" and looks into her actual credentials. She set herself up with nowhere to go but down, and that's a dangerous position. After all, what you really get if you put lipstick on a pit bull all you get is a dumb bitch with makeup.

Dd

[Harlowe]

Well that's silly Embar, I was talking about the foreign policy experience of Obama & Palin, because you framed it that way ...

since Obama, who is gunning for the top spot, has just about the same foreign policy experience as Palin.

I think Lurker and Ddrak covered the rest so, not much more I can add. Just ditto what both of them have said.

The experience comparison between the two is just a load of bullshit spin, and judging by the polls - this spin is over. No one buys it. The only thing that is going to change the course of this election now are the upcoming debates - and not the Palin-Biden one(s) (because the fickle media & public are losing interest in this novelty act now), but the Obama-McCain debates.

The trophy livestock is going home with a blue ribbon from the state fair, but it's still going to end up roasting with an apple in it's mouth.

[Ddrak]

I think Richard Cohen summed up my feelings on McCain pretty well in his op-ed today:

McCain has turned ugly. His dishonesty would be unacceptable in any politician, but McCain has always set his own bar higher than most. He has contempt for most of his colleagues for that very reason: They lie. He tells the truth. He internalizes the code of the McCains -- his grandfather, his father: both admirals of the shining sea. He serves his country differently, that's all -- but just as honorably. No more, though.

...

McCain has soiled all that. His opportunistic and irresponsible choice of Sarah Palin as his political heir -- the person in whose hands he would leave the country -- is a form of personal treason, a betrayal of all he once stood for. Palin, no matter what her other attributes, is shockingly unprepared to become president. McCain knows that. He means to win, which is all right; he means to win at all costs, which is not.

Dd

[Trollbait]

If anyone now doubts that Harlowe is anything but a liberal democrat then they are idiots. You will never get her to admit it, though. It becomes obvious the longer she carries water for them.

The real clincher though is posting links from Truthout.org

IIRC this is the truthout of Jason Leopold fame. The very same Leopold that said Rove would be indicted in 24 business hours.


Little hint. If you do not want to be labeled a liberal democrat don't post links from Sean Penn and Truthout, champion their ressonance, and pretend you are objective.


P.S. Vote Obama

[Harlowe]

Give me a fucking break Jecks. I found Seann Penn's article on the Obama site. I'm registered as an Independent, I'll be voting for a local Republican along with my vote for a Democratic President. I've voted for an Independent numerous times. If the person is socially liberal - in the sense of personal liberties - and shows fiscal responsibility = they have my vote.

I don't know what Truthout is exactly, I'll have to check out who they are - I just follow the links for news every day when I Google McCain, Obama. I go to every site that has something new. I don't go "hmm is this a neo-con site, is this a liberal site, is this an independent site, is this a green site, is this an anarchist site".

I'm not going to pretend to be someone I'm not, nor be labeled by you because you like to box people into your narrow world-view.

I haven't been objective since Bush's second term. I would never claim to be.

Of course you don't want to talk issues anyway, you've been oddly silent since your "this is why I'm voting Obama" post, but you'll come out to do a personal bash, which is oh-so familiar. What's important here is how people are labeled, not discussing actual issues.

ETA: Truthout - Well I looked and they claimed they weren't beholden to any party, they were an independent news source. I looked on Wiki and found the story about Jason Leopold and the Rove indictment. Looks like he has an issue with "sources", so I wouldn't consider him personally very credible.

[Harlowe]

So the one article on Voter Caging (not the first link but the second) is from Truthout, so not sure about the accuracy of that. None of my other sources in the links are from Truthout though, but if you want to challenge any of them - be my guest. I have no problem with being educated on a news source - unless you are being ridiculously biased like "omg they are all liberal media and the only source for truth is Drudge & Fox!".

[Trollbait]

Of course you don't want to talk issues anyway, you've been oddly silent since your "this is why I'm voting Obama" post

I have posted several times since that post. No less and no more than is really usual for me when I am in the middle of working.

[Lurker]

So the one article on Voter Caging (not the first link but the second) is from Truthout, so not sure about the accuracy of that.

It was accurate but the Ohio Secretary of State has now taken steps to prevent caging in Ohio.

[Kulaf]

Do you support that action Lurker?

[Lurker]

Yes.

Moving or losing your home shouldn't result in the loss of voting rights as long as adequate safeguards are in place to prevent double voting.

There have been studies done, including by the Bush DoJ, that show polling place voter fraud is extremely rare... almost non-existent. These draconian efforts by Republicans are not aimed at preventing fraud, they are aimed at disenfranchising legitimate voters.

Not going to work this year (pdf link).

[Harlowe]

Considering that actual voter fraud isn't an issue, I would say it's a good call. I'm not sure why you'd want to keep any of our fellow citizens (that have the right to vote) from voting.

Some links to studies can be found here. http://truthaboutfraud.org/