Say a small prayer for N.O.

[Xtizu]

And? They have better methods of dealing with flooding than we do and we DO have hurricanes.

They also have 3 committees appointed to the problem and have been dealing with it since the dark ages.

[Harlowe]

And? They have better methods of dealing with flooding than we do and we DO have hurricanes.

They also have 3 committees appointed to the problem and have been dealing with it since the dark ages.

Which makes a pretty good case for exploring their solutions don't you think?

[Rsak]

The problem is gaining critical mass in implementing the changes necessary because otherwise it is "that costs too much" or "government is giving sugar sweet contracts to companies".

The Netherlands implemented what they did because they suffered the consequences of flooding quite a few times in their history.

By all means look at what they are doing but don't delude yourself that the state of Louisiana could implement any of it with their finely crafted system of corruption and kickbacks.

[Embar Angylwrath]

If over 50% of our country lay below sea leavel, maybe we would have 3 special committees too.

But it doesn't. We don't need to mirror the Netherlands in policy or practice because we aren't the Netherlands. New orleans is a tiny fraction of the land mass, and of the overall population. We don't need the city there, it isn't strategic, and any port activity can be absorbed elswhere.

Plus, chanelling of the rivers waters affects everything upstream as well. Let the delta act as a delta, and we'd have less flooding upstream, healthier wetlands downstream, a healthier Gulf, and a better flood control policy.

New Orleans needs to be left to the tides.

[Harlowe]

If over 50% of our country lay below sea leavel, maybe we would have 3 special committees too.

But it doesn't. We don't need to mirror the Netherlands in policy or practice because we aren't the Netherlands. New orleans is a tiny fraction of the land mass, and of the overall population. We don't need the city there, it isn't strategic, and any port activity can be absorbed elswhere.

Plus, chanelling of the rivers waters affects everything upstream as well. Let the delta act as a delta, and we'd have less flooding upstream, healthier wetlands downstream, a healthier Gulf, and a better flood control policy.

New Orleans needs to be left to the tides.

I didn't say mirror it, I didn't say do the exact same thing - I said maybe learn something from them and their technology. It's not so black and white, other than, this country is NEVER going to let a huge piece of history go to the tides, so lets utilize better technology to work with this situation.

[Kulaf]

Ohh never say never. Next big hit on the New Madrid fault could shift the course of the Mississippi river again about put it right through NO.

[Xtizu]

its kind of interesting about all these hurricanes hitting new orleans and friends. seams like every year we get slammed harder and harder, i wonder if it has anything to do with the climate changes and salinity of the sea water changing due to it

[Embar Angylwrath]

No

[Lurker]

Right. There's no evidence that climate change has increased the frequency or number of hurricanes, although it does have the possibility of increasing the intensity.

[Xtizu]

Right. There's no evidence that climate change has increased the frequency or number of hurricanes, although it does have the possibility of increasing the intensity.

thats what i meant, not number we allways get hit by at least 3 or so a year right? (pulling that outa my ass) but they have been getting bigger and badder for a while.

[Xtizu]

Oh crap I am sorry! In light of new evidence corresponding to the Pastafarian movement I must recant my previous thoughts. Henceforth I will recognize that the lack of pirates has increased the temperature of the earth (due to pirates being so cool) and angered the seas such that his great noodley appendage has chosen to punish us for capturing and locking away his beloved pirates, as shown by this chart.

[Kulaf]

Right. There's no evidence that climate change has increased the frequency or number of hurricanes, although it does have the possibility of increasing the intensity.

thats what i meant, not number we allways get hit by at least 3 or so a year right? (pulling that outa my ass) but they have been getting bigger and badder for a while.

As my previous link shows......from 1852 to prior to Gustov there were 18 cat 3+ storms to strike the NO area.

[Embar Angylwrath]

Right. There's no evidence that climate change has increased the frequency or number of hurricanes, although it does have the possibility of increasing the intensity.

Or the possibility of lowering intensity.

Or the possibility of having no effect at all.

[Kulaf]

Cause and effect for hurricanes is pretty clear. They get stronger over warm water. So if climate change increases ocean temp.......effect.

[Embar Angylwrath]

Cause and effect for hurricanes is pretty clear. They get stronger over warm water. So if climate change increases ocean temp.......effect.

Look at 2005, 2006 and 2007 numbers. Correlate that with global temps. Then look at global temps and hurricane production over the last 100 years. (not just the ones that make landfall on some arbitrary point on the US map). Then come back here and tell me how you like the taste of crow.

There's no relevant statistical correlation between global temps and hurrican production. There is however, a highly statistical correlation between El Nino/El Nina events, and hurricane production.

[Kulaf]

Ok I know you just jumped at my response without reading it but let's try again and this time I will put some emphasis on it for you:

Cause and effect for hurricanes is pretty clear. They get stronger over warm water. So if climate change increases ocean temp.......effect.

[Embar Angylwrath]

There are a lot of other factors that go into making a strong hurricane besides warmer water. Its part of the equation, but not the only part.

[Harlowe]

I don't know what it's going to take, but whatever it is, it will be far too late to respond to the fact ...that the environment is changing.

[Kulaf]

There are a lot of other factors that go into making a strong hurricane besides warmer water. Its part of the equation, but not the only part.

Yes.....and thus in your myopic view of climetology that totally makes the point moot......we get it already. If there is not 100% knowledge of how something works Embar gets to bury his head in the sand.......stick his fingers in his ears.......and LA LA LA all day long.

From the National Weather Service National Hurricane Center:

Once a disturbance forms and sustained convection develops, it can become more organized under certain conditions. If the disturbance moves or stays over warm water (at least 80°F), and upper level winds remain weak, the disturbance can become more organized, forming a depression.

The warm water is one of the most important keys as it is water that powers the tropical cyclone (see image above right). As water vapor (water in the gaseous state) rises, it cools. This cooling causes the water vapor to condense into a liquid we see as clouds. In the process of condensation, heat is released. This heat warms the atmosphere making the air lighter still which then continues to rise into the atmosphere. As it does, more air moves in near the surface to take its place which is the strong wind we feel from these storms.

[Embar Angylwrath]

I don't know what it's going to take, but whatever it is, it will be far too late to respond to the fact ...that the environment is changing.

C'mon Harlowe.. the environment is ALWAYS changing. It's NEVER static. There have been warm-ups and cool-downs long before humans evolved, and they'll continue to happen long after we're gone.