Clan Ascension Jumps Fear raid

Roma · Post by **Roma** » Mon Apr 21, 2003 10:59 am

O M G someone beat you to fear... wanna know the number of times that's happened to my guild? more than I can count, its part of the GAME!! If you want your epics handed to you then GO TO STORMHAMMER

Talaena · Post by **Talaena** » Mon Apr 21, 2003 10:59 am

If no golems were up, we wouldn't be having this conversation. would we?

Lisset · Post by **Lisset** » Mon Apr 21, 2003 11:01 am

Roma wrote: GO TO STORMHAMMER

I don't have my epic and neither do 1/3 of the clerics in my guild. We don't get them handed to us.

Redspine Bladeslinge · Mon Apr 21, 2003 11:01 am

To answer your question Ddrak, think of a world where people work and have lives and do not have a full day to devote to the game

Um, not speaking for Ddrak, but since were in same guild ... Watchers if filled with people who are exactly as you describe. And we do just fine living on FCFS.

Why, becuase we work hard at it! If we see something we want, we do our best to get to it. Sometimes we race/compeate with another guild. In the end either an agreement between the guilds is reached, or one of the guilds is ready before the other therefore moves in first and wins.

But in the end, whoever gets the mob, does so because they wanted it more therefore worked harder to get it. Next time, if we want it, we need to push ourselves a little harder to try and get it.

I don't have much of an oppinion on PoH/PoF Reservations, because it's been a very long time since I had anything to do with them (hell it's been months since I have been to either zone). Which is the case probably for the majority of people posting on this thread.

Roma · Post by **Roma** » Mon Apr 21, 2003 11:05 am

I was referring to the mob/zone reservation list that exists on Stormhammer.

Roma

Lisset · Post by **Lisset** » Mon Apr 21, 2003 11:07 am

There are no epic mobs on that list.

Post by **Ddrak** » Mon Apr 21, 2003 11:10 am

Lisset,

I'd say that FCFS is a significant step up from PnP in that it involves respect and intent rather than "first to engage wins". Only when there's significant stalling from the first force in the zone does it come down to the ultimatum of "engage in XX mins or we will". Normally this never happens. Guild leaders will talk (surprise!) and work out who gets what.

Dd

Vumil · Post by **Vumil** » Mon Apr 21, 2003 11:10 am

When folks reserve the older planes, its implied they are going for the epics as well.

Maybe so, but they would of been gone along time ago if we lumped gods and epic mobs in with reservations of a plane.

Another exampls is Chardok Royals. If we have a force ready to go but I notice on the boards that someone has posted LFmore for Royals, we would respect their implied meaning - they are reserving them.

No, they are 'looking for more' people to help them take out chardok royals. They're not reservable, they never were.

Not everyone. As I said, most folks respect others intentions. There are select few that dont give a shit though. Those are the entitlement whores. Or, since you dont like that term for this instance, assholes. Some folks (guilds) have consideration for others and some dont.

Really, what exactly is respecting someones intentions?

What do you think an entitlement whore is than?

What exactly do you think consideration is?

We've been very clear what the looking for more section is for. Just because some people are too stupid to read don't tell the rest of us that they should be considered reservations. And don't pretend that anyone is going to consider any rant having to do with it valid, try it you'll be shot down quickly.

Rsak,

Most people in the top guilds work, go to school, etc and play EQ in their spare time. I wouldn't say they're hogging the mob, because they're eventually going to move on. We've been doing this for years, its not an abuse of the system. I don't think its selfish, they're going to eventually be out of your way. Kunark would of worked 10x smoother if things were like this back then.

Noone ever said getting to a mob first made you a better person or player, but if someone or a group of people play more, they're obviously going to get more

Edyil Crossfire · Post by **Edyil Crossfire** » Mon Apr 21, 2003 12:15 pm

Ddrak, thats the same ole crap you always say to justify jumping someones intent. Fine, thats how you play your game and you stay within PNP (just like the dickheads who walk up to a camped Lodi and sit on the spot hoping to get agro first). Good for you. It still makes those that do so an asshole.

They (CA) didn't demonstrate anything other than they can stay up all night. They are not better than us, they are not more deserving, they are not more organized or more knowledgeable. They simply stay up late enough to check on mobs between raids and gank them. There is no honor there. They deserve no respect. I wouldnt do that to another guild and i wouldnt expect it done to mine. There are numberous times we go after mobs to find someone beat us to them. We dont care. We move on and find something else. Where I draw the line is when we reserve a time and place for us to meet (which is public knowledge) just to have folks rush in to take specific mobs down before we have the ability to be there.

Staying within the PNP doesnt make you right. It never has. Its always been a tool used by those about to crap on someone else.

Vumil,
Respecting someones intentions is understanding what and where they are going, then not jumping or hindering their success. When we zone in to places and see forces preparing (regardless of their ability to take the mob) we politely leave. Since folks sign up for Fear, we never check to see if Epics are up between raids because we respect their intent. When we do Chardok or the Hole, we stay out of the way of others and reschedule if we see folks are planning events on those days (posting on the LFM section or forming up in zone). Its obvious what their intent is, so we move on.

An entitlement whore is someone that thinks just becaues they can get their first, then should get the mob. Any guild forming and racing to a mob for the purpose of engaging first is one (when others are present and preparing). Folks should work out the details before anyone advances. Thats Ideal, I agree but it would be nice. Furthermore, guilds that gank the reserved planes of epics between other posted raids fit as entitlement whores. A solution is to sign up as the others do and hope the mobs are up when your turn rolls around. Not in the rules? Very true. It doesnt change the fact that they feel they can take them at midnight over another raid that plans to do so, can and would have in a few hours.

Consideration is a mixture of the two above. Like I said, most guilds wouldnt go into a reserved area at midnight to take some mobs when they know a raid is scheduled for a few hours later - just out of consideration. Most folks know when someone schedules LFM, that they infact will get more and thus stay out of their way prior to posted start time - just out of consideration.

Someone said "Had LofS taken down the mobs, none of this would have been an issue." and thats 100% correct. We would have still gone to Fear hoping for the best and getting items for young folks that we bring along. I have zero problem with signing up and taking my shot. I wont sneak in between raids to take the mobs though.

Maybe I should ask my guild to see if they want to change tactics. I think it sucks, but they might not care. Its sort of like cutting someone off in traffic. Its really not illegal. Its inconsiderate as hell. But hey, everyones doing it, so why not.

What I find amusing is that you folks defending the action are so hypocritical. You are the same people who bitch up a storm when someone calls PNP to force another person to share a camp. This is an example of while knowing the PNP, saying its the wrong thing to do. So why is this case different? Well because you do it, of course. Had you never a need to visit the zone for any reason, you'd probably say "Yeah its ok in PnP but they still suck for doing it."

Harlowe · Post by **Harlowe** » Mon Apr 21, 2003 12:22 pm

Has zero to do with PnP and is nothing like it. It's the same courtesy you show when you go into a zone after a mob with a force and find one already there. You can leave and find another target, you can ask to combine forces or you can wait your turn. All three choices can be handled with maturity and without anyone walking on anyone else.

That's not PnP. PnP is something forced, people working together has zero to do with a rule being inforced and everything to do with people behaving like adults.

Ariannda Kusanagi · Post by **Ariannda Kusanagi** » Mon Apr 21, 2003 12:23 pm

Is any plane ever reserved every night anymore ? That makes is smart to check between days to see if epic mobs are up... elnil i love you, but i hate to say they did nothing wrong.

Eanamin Elessedil · Post by **Eanamin Elessedil** » Mon Apr 21, 2003 12:24 pm

I used to be a huge proponent of the reservation system.

Quoting myself from the old rants board, from a post dated 10/14/00:

I for one would be pretty pissed if I were leading a raid the next night and someone snagged Cazic like that. Maybe I needed Cazic skin to complete MY epic quest, and that opportunity was just taken from me in the most self-serving way imaginable

Wow. I sound like quite the entitlement whore, don't I? Attitudes change over time, but I still think the Reservation system for Fear is a good thing IF and ONLY if at least 50% of the raids (a fairly conservative number) who are reserving Fear are there for armor drops, and that Fear is still being regularly reserved.

So let's take a look...

Of the THREE raid reservations (yeah, only 3 out of 14 possible dates are reserved) I see in the Fear forum, one of them was pissed about epic mobs being gone (hence this rant), one of them is reserving 4 epic pieces (they're surely there for the armor, though *nod nod*), and I have no clue about the other one.

Judging from that, I'd say that Fear reservations serve about as much purpose as a stick in the ass and that the time has come to put an end to them.

Jadelin Iceheart · Post by **Jadelin Iceheart** » Mon Apr 21, 2003 12:26 pm

You're coming off like an angry little man Edyil and you're starting to make gross generalizations about others which I hope you realize cannot hope to hold up any portion of your argument.

Where I draw the line is when we reserve a time and place for us to meet (which is public knowledge) just to have folks rush in to take specific mobs down before we have the ability to be there.

Were your reserved mobs taken? No. Were you in error thinking that you are entitled to unreserveable mobs in the plane? Yes.

What I find amusing is that you folks defending the action are so hypocritical. You are the same people who bitch up a storm when someone calls PNP to force another person to share a camp.

Really? I've never bitched up a storm when someone calls PnP to force someone to share a camp. There are no camps, they are fully within their rights, as much as this game has, to call for a GM/Guide to settle a camp dispute. While I prefer to work with someone who is already at a camp and respect their camp as long as they are respectful to me, and even when/if they aren't, I still work within the rules.

What I find amusing is that the reservation system, of which you are so strong a supporter, failed you in the argument you're trying to make, you admit to this, because CA followed the rules of the system! Your latest posts just make it sound like you are pissed because you didn't get what you wanted and felt you were entitled to! Why do you continue to fight so hard for a system that has failed you in the area you most desired it not to?

Rsak · Post by **Rsak** » Mon Apr 21, 2003 12:30 pm

Vumil,

I understand that and i did not try to say the higher guilds on our server was hogging mobs. It was just an example of what can happen to abuse the system. i.e. it is not perfect. I am in no way advicating more reservations on current content. It just makes more sense to me with the abyssmal spawn times for zone trash in fear and hate and sky that reservations make more sense to me.

And ddrak did say that getting to a mob first made you a better. And obviously if you play more you will get more, but the hope is that you will move on after you have gotten.

Redspine Bladeslinge · Mon Apr 21, 2003 12:32 pm

Your fighting a lost cause Edyil .... I understand what your saying, but it doesn't work that way. You want/need something in EQ, you need to step up and work hard to get it. If you don't, someone else will beat you. Doesn't mean you have to be an ass about things, but does mean you

Regardless if you think it was honorable or not, respect or disrespect, what happened is the "standard norm" that has been going on ever since Fear was updated. Which, was, like, well, a long time ago. Becuase of this, you won't find much support here no matter how long you talk.

Harlowe · Post by **Harlowe** » Mon Apr 21, 2003 12:35 pm

The quickest way to end reservations is for people to start thinking they have a claim to mobs that are not included in the reservations.

The only reason they didn't shitcan all reservations was the understanding that epic mobs and god mobs were not part of that reservation.

Post by **Ddrak** » Mon Apr 21, 2003 12:38 pm

Edyil,

Point form in the vain hope you may understand some of it.

This has nothing to do with the "PnP".
Your whine is exactly the same as someone sitting at zone bitching that they got their camp stolen from them in Sebilis.
This is nothing like sitting on Lodi's spawn getting agro first. If someone else is already there then it's their spawn by FCFS. Sitting on a DTing golem's spawn is also usually considered a dumb idea.
CA went in at around 11pm Pacific. Hardly "up all night". Get your facts straight please.
Who is more deserving of Juggs? Those who fight down and get there or someone who claims them from zone to move down an hour later? Extrapolate to your situation.
There is no honor in demanding everyone else on the server stay away from a mob just because you want it and had the mad l33t web sk1llz to sign up on a list that doesn't even cover the spawn in question. There is honor in a fair fight.
Your definition of "entitlement whore" is someone that thinks that no one is entitled to a mob. Welcome to newspeak!
"A few hours" does not equal 13-14 hours. Get your facts straght.
LFM isn't a reservation and shouldn't ever be treated that way. Should we not attack Aerin'Dar because someone is LFM in 5 days time? Grow some sense and look at how the rotations and reservations killed the high end in Kunark. If they're in the zone preparing then good. Otherwise it's a crap-shoot.
Yes, we are the people who call down on others that demand a camp shared with PnP because, in fucking big letters so you get it:
YOU ARE THE ONLY ONE TO MENTION THE PNP, IDIOT
Learn the difference between FCFS and the PnP so you don't look so retardedly stupid before you post next.

Dd

Ariannda Kusanagi · Post by **Ariannda Kusanagi** » Mon Apr 21, 2003 12:39 pm

oops, my misspell.... i had just come form the mage epic thread about elnil, ignore that.

Still holds true. Although the epic mobs are not reservable is it DEFINATLY in ones best interest to see if they're up between raids. I'm with you, i'm not going to go yank something right out from undersomeone. Obviously though that's sometimes easier said then done. I couldn't find a wizard 9 times out of 10 to port a group (or a rangah) up to hate to see if the mob was even up.

Reserve the plane and hope the mob is up, reserve the plane for fun/groups/armor, or don't bother reserving at all and go check what's up... that's seem to the be the choices =/

Edyil Crossfire · Post by **Edyil Crossfire** » Mon Apr 21, 2003 12:46 pm

Jade, where you are missing the point in that we wont do that to others and wouldnt expect it done to us. Its common courtesy. We have it and they dont. Most guilds have it, dont get me wrong. And I never said we were entitled to the mobs. All I said is that we are entitled to a shot at the mobs when our turn comes up. Meaning if we arnt going to gank someone elses scheduled raid and others are going to gank ours, then what point is there in using the reservation system?

I really really dont want to have to sit someone in Fear to track for mobs. There is no fun in that. Its much more fun to prepare the raid, go in and try our luck. Id much rather tell the guild while in the zone "Woot xxxx is up!" than tell the guild "xxxx is up. Form up now. Meet in PoK." There is a big difference in the two where one is work and fun while the other is all work and pressure.

I dont want to farm epics. I guess thats the big difference. Some guilds farm epics at all costs, while other just visit zones for fun and look for nice surprises (drops). It has zero to do with ability. You guilds that think this is some form of race are totally different than us that feel its for friends and fun. I havnt and wont race you to anything. I want you to get our mobs. When we try for mobs, I want us to be successful as well. There is no race.

I do support the system but for only those old planes. FCFS works very well for us for the majority of mobs we are after.

Edyil Crossfire · Post by **Edyil Crossfire** » Mon Apr 21, 2003 12:57 pm

Ddrak, PnP was brought up by 5 others here. 3 of which did before I me responding and one of them was you.

What a dickhead. Shall I put that in big letters for you?

Brell Rants

Clan Ascension Jumps Fear raid

ROFLMAO

Re: ROFLMAO

I was referring to..