New Game of Thrones

[Harlowe]

Speaking of GRRM and his books, I think Neil Gaiman's blog post about GRRM was awesome.

http://journal.neilgaiman.com/2009/05/e ... ssues.html

[Xican]

Interesting read, Harlowe. I'm torn on whether or not I agree with Gaiman, though. On the one hand, he's right in saying that fans don't have a 'right' to be badgering an author over having a life. On the other hand, I feel like this isn't a case of simply; "George hasn't released book 6, how dare he take the time to water his garden while we wait!"

My own theories of Martin having lost control aside, he has made promises, repeatedly and failed to deliver. At that point it's not about 'working for the fans'. If he isn't ready for something he shouldn't be setting these silly timelines. I'd also add that with the involvement of HBO, who has said they'll finish the story with or without him, if Martin was at all concerned about his creative vision as an 'artist' (which, I sincerely doubt he is) he'd be hauling ass.

I don't think Martin works for me, but I certainly won't be buying any more of his books. I'll be happy to watch the show to see the conclusion. I would expect this is something his publisher would be worried about. If HBO does season 6 (and maybe 7 at this rate) before book 6, what're the odds it'll maintain sales? Martin doesn't owe it to the fans to finish, but the fans also don't owe anything to him to wait for him to finish.

[Harlowe]

If he's not your cup of tea, he's not. Personally, I'll read the shit out of anything he publishes. He's a fabulous world-builder and story-telling. The TV series will complete the story whether he does or not, so I'm not too worried and since I've enjoyed the hell out of the ride so far, I'm not going to feel personally affronted by whether he finishes it or not. I hope he does, but I won't be pissed off - I got my entertainment dollar out of it.

I don't know, I just don't see the point of anyone getting put out because an author has a life or has a writing block or is temporarily uninspired or has other personal shit going on that is none of my business. I wouldn't want someone cranking out shit, just to crank it out. I'd like to read a story that is done in their time, telling it the way they want to tell it.

[Xican]

For me it isn't that I'm put off by the wait. It's that I think he doesn't know how to finish his own story. Frankly, I haven't enjoyed the last few books as much as the first three. It seems to me that Martin is floundering and I doubt that he is capable of bringing it all together. That's what I think has really caused the delay. It took what, 7 years for book 5? That isn't writer's block or simply having a life outside of your career, in my mind. I've read a few of his other works, outside of GoT and was very unimpressed.

I truly think Martin's an average writer, who struck gold with GoT, but doesn't have the ability to close it properly. Now I've got another means of seeing the story's conclusion and I don't feel the need to stick by him or his 'vision'. I just can't attribute an author who churns out 3 books in 4 years (that're his best works) and then takes 13 years to produce 2 more books (which I felt didn't live up to the first 3) as someone suffering writer's block or time restrictions. I'm not even sure he wants to finish, at this point. My opinion (and certainly some will disagree and that's fair) is that his writing started to fall apart with Book 4 and I'm just not inclined to read any further, or invest in his writing if I don't think it'll lead me anywhere.

[Morbidd]

so..i watched the first episode of the new series last night. Not bad for an opener. I have been a massive fan since the first episode and it does not look like i will be let down by the new series so bring it on!

My only gripe if i had one was the death of the Hound....by far and away the best character in the imo. The scene in the inn where he tells the thugs that He's gonna "eat all the fucking chicken" and lays waste to the whole place was just wicked

[Ddrak]

I half thought Melisandre was going to jump John Snow in the lift...

[Alluveal]

Hey, Dd, I hope you see this. I want to carry on our conversation we had a while back (and if others want to chime in, I really want to hear your thoughts).

I'm wondering about the forces at work here. Ddrak once talked about chaos and order.

We have the Lord of Light and the Many Faced God and the Others (White Walkers) from the north.

I'm trying to connect things here. I've heard others state that the White Walkers are on the "side" of the many faced god. But I'm not sure. Isn't someone dying then being revived (into undead) in a sense stealing from the Many Faced god?

Obviously, he can't be aligned with the Red God because resurrecting someone is also stealing from the many-faced god. Unless there are three forced at play here?

Many Faced god
Red god
Other? (for the White Walkers)

And where to the Children fit in?

[Ddrak]

The TV series puts a whole new terror on the Lord of Light, especially with Stannis killing his daughter for nothing - seriously, WTF!

I have to read ADWD again to figure out the whole picture of the Children. It's not entirely clear in my mind at the moment.

I can still see the Many Faced God being the same as the Red God - resurrection would be stealing if the life was already yours. I think it's stretching the idea though because he has a strong element of chaos as well. He's sort of weird - a complete teardown of the individual to group servitude through assassination...?

I still do see the Red God as a force of unfeeling order, demanding unwavering obedience. I see the White Walkers as a force of chaos - tearing down the status quo in the same style as the shadows in B5.

Dd