Game of Thrones

[Alluveal]

Yeah, I read those tweets and LOL'ed. My husband has NOT seen the episode yet (we were away on a family emergency but I snuck in my watching on HBO GO) and I almost want to record his reaction. He keeps saying things like, "Robb is going to kick that Joff kid's ass. He is. I swear to God." He thinks Arya is going to meet up with her brother, they're all going to band together to save Sansa and then win at Westeros.

And I just sit. Quietly. Waiting until the moment when he realizes that shit just does NOT happen that way in George R.R. Martin's world. I mean, people get revenge. There will be two instances in particular that will take place in season 4 that will be wholly satisfying, but one in particular does not come in the way that you think it might. And it's awesome.

[Freecare Spiritwise]

If I were that ignorant of an upcoming plot like that, my wife would totally make me pay for comments like your husband's. She'd say something like "I don't want to spoil the plot, but it's pretty obvious Robb is going to kick all their asses."

That twitter link reminds me of a joke I saw the other day:

Twitter is like Game of Thrones: 140 characters and you know it isn't going to end well.

[Alluveal]

Only 140 characters? Heh heh heh!

[Harlowe]

Hahah free I saw a version of that - Why doesn't George R.R. Martin use twitter? Because he killed all 140 characters.

[Freecare Spiritwise]

I did read those tweets, and yeah, they were epic.

OMG I WAZ TRAUMATIZED BY TEH TVS

[Alluveal]

I wonder how many death threats Martin will get over this.

And I wonder how many he'll get if they make it to the end of Dance with Dragons.

[Harlowe]

This is what I love about Martin's writing...it's not like your typical hero or main character(s) perspective, where you don't feel any real fear when they are in dangerous situations, because you know ultimately they are probably going to be okay. With his books, you feel the story in a more intimate way, because you really don't know what is going to happen to them and no main character is safe. I don't feel people die arbitrarily, it's just more real - which makes it more engaging.

"I try to make the readers feel they’ve lived the events of the book. Just as you grieve if a friend is killed, you should grieve if a fictional character is killed. You should care. If somebody dies and you just go get more popcorn, it’s a superficial experience isn’t it?"

“I've been killing characters my entire career, maybe I'm just a bloody minded bastard, I don't know, [but] when my characters are in danger, I want you to be afraid to turn the page (and to do that) you need to show right from the beginning that you're playing for keeps.”

My guy keeps teasing me about how mad I'm going to be once I get to the end of a Dance with Dragons. I'm trying to avoid any and all spoilers because I'm not there yet. But I'm worried.

[Alluveal]

Where are you in the books, Harlowe? Did you pick them up again? Clash with Kings got slow for me, but then Storm of Swords picked up. Feast for Crows got a little slow again (especially with Iron Isles and Dorne crap) but then ADWD picked up.

And for the record, the end of ADWD is still up in the air. It was purposely left on a seriously fucked up cliffhanger with one character and I do believe it IS a cliffhanger and not "THE END" (in capital letters).

[Xican]

It's funny, I'm re-reading the series for the third time and all I can think as I'm reading is; "Holy shit. George Martin is kind of a terrible writer." I don't think I initially noticed it, because it was new and he cleverly hooked me with huge early plot points (Bran's fall, Jamie and Cersei, etc) but his writing just isn't very good. I've come to realize also that, after ADWD, I'm not that eager to continue reading. He has liberally killed off the majority of characters that I felt any connection to. No offense, George, but I don't give a flying fuck what happens to Sansa. In fact, if you killed her off I'd be pretty happy that I didn't have to struggle through reading her chapters anymore. It almost feels to me like Martin's killing characters off more as a 'shock value' than anything at this point.

I guess what I'm trying to say is Martin's liberal killing of main characters chafes me, because there are few characters left that I really like. Post ADWD the only thing I have to look forward to is my deep down prayer that Cersei dies via Beyond-The-Wall-Giant gang raping. I think that says a lot about the reading experience. I'm no longer reading for the highs and lows of characters I enjoy, I'm just enduring to hopefully see the downfall of characters I dislike.

[Alluveal]

What parts of Martin's writing are "bad?" He's pretty A-list in terms of craft in the eyes of many, so I'm kind of baffled by the whole, "his writing sucks" thing. I mean, I know people have certain aesthetics on this stuff.

I mean, when I think of "bad writing," I think of Twilight.

[Harlowe]

I was on his second book awhile back, then I started with the first again recently, so I'm on a Storm of Swords right now, however, I am NOT to the damn red wedding. I've been hearing "red wedding" comments for ages, without people giving it away and for some reason I always thought it would be in relation to Melisandre or the Lord of Light...something entirely different.

I like not really knowing everything coming up in the books. I didn't read Xican's post, because I have the feeling it might have spoilers for me, since he starting to talk about character deaths.

[Freecare Spiritwise]

I thought the quality of writing dipped just a little in ADWD. Taken as a whole, the book was outstanding I thought, but a few of the long-winded Tyrion and Dany chapters did seem almost forced. Like dammit, he was having so much fun doing all this other shit that finishing this book was an obstacle to what he really wanted to do. But it was just a few chapters that came across that way. The rest of it, and 99% of the other books are as good in my opinion as anything this genre has ever produced. I think GRRM is right up there with Herbert, Donaldson, Tolkien, Brooks, Jordan, Goodkind, etc., and in many places surpasses those authors. I'm a big fan ... so long as he moves his ass on the next book.

[Alluveal]

Free.... Agree with a lot. Spoilery stuff.....

Hidden Information!

Dany's chapters are horrendous, except for the last few. Yay, let me read about her dipping her dainty feet into little pools and letting fish nibble away her dry skin. Let me read about her lounging on silken pillows while holding court. Let me see her wandering around her balcony staring off into the night, dreaming of Daaaaaaario . . .

Dear lord. Why?

She's the shittiest ruler, imho. WTF?

Tyrion, on the other hand, I really liked . . . except for Penny. Ugh. I loved his interaction with Jorah and with the Targaryen camp.

I loved Asha's POV and Reek's. I felt they were really the most dynamic. Every time I think of that dude sitting outside of Winterfell beating his drum (and Ramsay Bolton's men thinking, "OMG, IT'S STANNIS!") makes me laugh out loud.

In ADWD (Non-spoilery) Martin had some interesting descriptions of farts in the last book. That was kind of WTF for me.

I don't think the writing was less, I think that they pushed it so hard for release right when the HBO show was coming out that the manuscript suffered in the editing process. From a writer's POV, I saw a lot of redundancy, some words and phrases that kept being repeated: "slavering" and the description of sex from a woman's point of view equaling, "not knowing where she ended and he began" (twice). These are things that would have been caught in a closer editing of the work.

HARLOWE . . . . yeah, Storm of Swords is badass. It's my favorite by far because you get the first of Jaime's POV. When I first started reading the Kinglsayer, I thought, "Oh hellz no!" and then you can't help but let him redeem himself, especially when he goes back for Brienne. Jaime is one of my favorite POVs now. He, Arya, and Tyrion for sure.

Arya's story really takes an interesting turn. Also, it's a bummer that in the HBO show, they aren't showing anything with Nymeria (Arya's wolf). I remember in book 2 (and book 3) there were rumors about the HUGE she-wolf that is fucking shit up.

[Ddrak]

And for the record, the end of ADWD is still up in the air. It was purposely left on a seriously fucked up cliffhanger with one character and I do believe it IS a cliffhanger and not "THE END" (in capital letters).

I'm pretty sure Gollum isn't coming back from doing a lava dive with the one ring.



Dd

[Alluveal]

Gollum's not, but the person who gets the Julius Caesar treatment at the end of ADWD has massive potential.

[Xican]

What parts of Martin's writing are "bad?" He's pretty A-list in terms of craft in the eyes of many, so I'm kind of baffled by the whole, "his writing sucks" thing. I mean, I know people have certain aesthetics on this stuff.

I mean, when I think of "bad writing," I think of Twilight.

I find him very long-winded. Not as bad as most fantasy authors, but not on par with most 'acclaimed' fictional authors of other genre's. On top of that, I find a lot of his word selection and description to be a little wtf-worthy. A good example is the scene is in the second book, where Yoren paddles Arya with the wood sword. I had to stop and re-read parts of that a couple times and shake my head at the way he described it.

It might be personal preference more than anything, but I just find his writing to be long-winded and poorly described (more word selection with description) in a lot of cases. I still think he created a handful of very engaging characters (Jon, Ned, Tyrion, Cersei, etc.) and a massive world. I just wish he'd be a little more to-the-point, I suppose. I really do fear for my interest in this series, after 5. I've got so few characters I truly enjoy left right now.

[Freecare Spiritwise]

Gollum's not, but the person who gets the Julius Caesar treatment at the end of ADWD has massive potential.

Especially since he seemed to set the stage for this potential in the prologue. Clearly it was something he thought hard about.

[Harlowe]

HARLOWE . . . . yeah, Storm of Swords is badass. It's my favorite by far because you get the first of Jaime's POV. When I first started reading the Kinglsayer, I thought, "Oh hellz no!" and then you can't help but let him redeem himself, especially when he goes back for Brienne. Jaime is one of my favorite POVs now. He, Arya, and Tyrion for sure.

Arya's story really takes an interesting turn. Also, it's a bummer that in the HBO show, they aren't showing anything with Nymeria (Arya's wolf). I remember in book 2 (and book 3) there were rumors about the HUGE she-wolf that is fucking shit up.

I have an entirely different view of Jaime now, he definitely is one of my favorites - same as yours - Arya, Tyrion and I like Jon Snow as well. Even if he is sulky.

I watched the last episode again, and I think I had PTSD from it. The first time I was groggy because we were watching it in bed late at night, so it didn't have the same gut wrenching impact it had when I was fully alert watching it. Even though I knew what was coming. I think it was Catelyn's soul-wrenching bellow for her son. Oh man, and then to twist the knife even further.....shooting Grey Wind, Arya seeing it and knowing something horrible has happened inside. Oh man...I have deep, deep affection for the dire wolves. So anyway, second time around was worse than the first. Hopefully I'm inoculated for reading about it now.

[Alluveal]

Ya know, reading it I remember feeling so much pain for Catelyn. She thinks Bran and Rickon are head. She's just learned that Sansa was forced to marry the Imp, and nothing about Arya. Since Robb never had a POV in the books, I wasn't feeling it FOR him, but for Cat.

They left a few gross details out about the RW (more post-red wedding), but yeah, it was pretty horrifying. You'll have to let us all know what you think of the epilogue in book 3. (grin)

[Freecare Spiritwise]

Comcast it turns out has been overcharging me for the last two years, so of course I only got free HBO just in time to watch the season ender. I wonder if there's another shows on HBO that are worth a shit.