FISA goes forward

[Minute]

Feels bad man...

http://www.theatlanticwire.com/politics ... ive/60403/

[Partha]

Because SCARY MUSLIMS WILL KILL YOU ALL AND RAPE YOUR DOG, THAT'S WHY. NOW SHUT UP, COMMIE HIPPIE SCUM.

[Kulaf]

I would love to see FISA declared an unconstitutional impingement on the Executives sole Constitutional power to gather foreign intelligence.

[Ddrak]

The fundamental problem is you don't know if you're gathering foreign intel or not until you start looking. The Executive has no right to gather any information on domestic events, so there's a problem.

Dd

[Kulaf]

There's no problem. The only problem would arrise if the government attempted to use what they learned against someone in a court of law. Using it simply as a tool to stop potential attacks would not in anyway violate anyones rights. It would clearly fall into the exigent circumstances exception to needing a warrent.

[Ddrak]

There's no problem. The only problem would arrise if the government attempted to use what they learned against someone in a court of law. Using it simply as a tool to stop potential attacks would not in anyway violate anyones rights. It would clearly fall into the exigent circumstances exception to needing a warrent.

You can only claim exigent circumstances if you know for sure that something is happening, not to determine if something is happening. It's the doctrine that lets cops follow a fleeing criminal into their home, but not bug someone's home to prove they are a criminal.

Similarly, there's no doctrine that says it's ok for the cops to search your house as long as they don't use anything. As phone conversations are treated in the same way letters in the mail are, there's no doctrine that lets them listen to your phone calls but not use what they find. The act of listening itself breaches your fourth amendment rights.

Dd

[Ddrak]

Although, more worrisome than FISA:

http://online.wsj.com/article_email/SB1 ... DMyWj.html

The rules now allow the little-known National Counterterrorism Center to examine the government files of U.S. citizens for possible criminal behavior, even if there is no reason to suspect them. That is a departure from past practice, which barred the agency from storing information about ordinary Americans unless a person was a terror suspect or related to an investigation.

Now, NCTC can copy entire government databases—flight records, casino-employee lists, the names of Americans hosting foreign-exchange students and many others. The agency has new authority to keep data about innocent U.S. citizens for up to five years, and to analyze it for suspicious patterns of behavior. Previously, both were prohibited. Data about Americans "reasonably believed to constitute terrorism information" may be permanently retained.

The changes also allow databases of U.S. civilian information to be given to foreign governments for analysis of their own. In effect, U.S. and foreign governments would be using the information to look for clues that people might commit future crimes.

NCTC can go on fishing trips, and hand your government records to any other nation they feel like. Awesome!

Dd