Third Debate

[Embar Angylwrath]

Here are the topics, and I have an issue with them...

http://www.politico.com/blogs/media/201 ... 38341.html

* America’s role in the world
* Our longest war – Afghanistan and Pakistan
* Red Lines – Israel and Iran
* The Changing Middle East and the New Face of Terrorism – I
* The Changing Middle East and the New Face of Terrorism – II
* The Rise of China and Tomorrow’s World

The world is a much bigger place than the middle east with a nod towards China. Russia and North Korea? South America and economics? A little more diversity here would have been helpful.

I think any sitting President has a huge advantage in a debate about foreign policy, so this is Obama's to lose. Obama is better briefed, and knows the landscape more intimately than is possible for Romney. So Romney gets a win if he just holds his own. If he beats the Benghazi drum too hard or too long, he risks being seen as just pointing out failures without a substantive difference in his policy, and he'll lose voters on that. As for Obama, his smart play would be to say "Yep, we fumbled on that one, and regrettably, it cost Americans their lives. Mistakes are made, and we do everything we can to make sure we learn from them, and improve."

That would take Romney's biggest bullet out of his gun. But I doubt Obama will do that... he'll likely defend the Benghazi incident as being handled well. As for Obama's bullets, he has plenty, especially with those topics. He has Osama bin Laden, he has the Iran sanctions (part of a world effort) and he has the quasi-successful campaign against al-Queida. That's a lot of ammo against Romney. We'll see how it goes.

[Harlowe]

I thought Obama was by far the stronger one in this debate. He wasn't speaking esoterically or saying things like..."I know how to get it done, I've been in business" but then no thoughts on how he'd get anything done and he stammered quite a bit.

He agreed with Obama on so many things, it was like an alternate universe.

Favorite part...."we also have fewer horses and bayonets". hehe

Still feel it's going to be a close one.

[Fallakin Kuvari]

Who was this Ultra-centrist speaking for Obama during his closing statement? Nothing he said he's going to do if he's re-elected lines up with reality on what he's done while in office thus far...

[Minute]

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa! Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa! My lying asshole of a candidate is going to lose Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa! Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!

Fixed

Btw, if you republicans would actually run someone that wasn't a total lying greedy money grubbing prick, they might get my vote. Gary Johnson would have. Hell Ron Paul might have even tugged my strings. It's not like Obama's base is just flooding with confidence. It's just that the right wing has gone so batshit crazy that the only people who will still follow them are the same batshit crazy fuckers.

[Ddrak]

Well, thank you very much, Bob, Governor Romney, and to Lynn University. You've now heard three debates, months of campaigning and way too many TV commercials. And now you've got a choice. Over the last four years we've made real progress digging our way out of policies that gave us two prolonged wars, record deficits and the worst economic crisis since the Great Depression.

And Governor Romney wants to take us back to those policies, a foreign policy that's wrong and reckless, economic policies that won't create jobs, won't reduce our deficit, but will make sure that folks at the very top don't have to play by the same rules that you do.

And I've got a different vision for America. I want to build on our strengths. And I've put forward a plan to make sure that we're bringing manufacturing jobs back to our shores by rewarding companies and small businesses that are investing here, not overseas.

I want to make sure we've got the best education system in the world. And we're retaining our workers for the jobs of tomorrow.

I want to control our own energy by developing oil and natural gas but also the energy sources of the future.

Yes, I want to reduce our deficit by cutting spending that we don't need but also by asking the wealthy to do a little bit more so that we can invest in things like research and technology that are the key to a 21st century economy.

As Commander in Chief, I will maintain the strongest military in the world, keep faith with our troops and go after those who would do us harm. but after a decade of war, I think we all recognize we've got to do some nation building here at home, rebuilding our roads, our bridges and especially caring for our Veterans who sacrificed so much for our freedom.

And we've been through tough times but we always bounce back because of our character, because we pull together and if I have the privilege of being your president for another four years, I promise you I will always listen to your voices. I will fight for your families and I will work every single day to make sure that America continues to be the greatest nation on earth.

Thank you.

Seemed mostly in line with his first term, but interested in your view.

Dd

[Partha]

Fall's had four years of being told that Obama's an illegal alien, the illegitimate son of either 1)Hitler, 2) Stalin, 3)Pol Pot, 4)Mao Zedong, or 5)Kim Jong-Il. Plus he's also the center of a worldwide decades-old plot to destroy America from the inside. He's a fascist, a communist, an anarchist, a super-hippie, and an alien. Plus, also, he's black.

I do not wonder that he's misinterpreted Obama as anything but what he is (a centrist to mild leftist Democrat, which means about 3 steps to the right of a real leftist). I'm just goddamned surprised that anyone hit with that much propaganda can still remember basics like putting milk on cereal.

[Harlowe]

I think the Right needs a huge loss in order to get it off the Tea Party train of crazy. They'd absolutely win over sane conservative people that aren't fundamentalists. How it stands right now? They bully and push out any voice of moderation and sanity, so much so that the staunch conservatives in my family (they call themselves Libertarian though) can't stomach the party right now. Too many crazy, extremist views on social liberties and spending in line with how they percieve Democrat spending.

Unless you're a raging fundamentalist or a fanatic about your party like it's a beloved home team, there is no reason to vote for them right now.

[Embar Angylwrath]

I think the Right needs a huge loss in order to get it off the Tea Party train of crazy. They'd absolutely win over sane conservative people that aren't fundamentalists. How it stands right now? They bully and push out any voice of moderation and sanity, so much so that the staunch conservatives in my family (they call themselves Libertarian though) can't stomach the party right now. Too many crazy, extremist views on social liberties and spending in line with how they percieve Democrat spending.

Unless you're a raging fundamentalist or a fanatic about your party like it's a beloved home team, there is no reason to vote for them right now.

There hasn't been much change in the republican party in the past few years. Yet they still swept the Dems out of the House by a staggering number. So enough people still beleive in the party as a whole, even if they don't like certain aspects of it. That's also the reason the Republicans have a shot at the Senate, and why the presidential race is so close. I find it hard to accept that half of the population is batshit crazy.

[Kulaf]

You're assuming that a big loss would make them see they are too far to the right.......and not right enough. Frankly I think a big loss would push them further to the right unfortunatly.

[Harlowe]

You may have a point Kulaf, my hope was that it would signal the extreme agenda isn't flying anymore. The Tea Party losing influence in the GOP wouldn't be good for Democrats, but it would be good for our country.

[Partha]

I find it hard to accept that half of the population is batshit crazy.

How about we substitute in 'poorly educated, easily misled, and in the grip of a fiercely conservative media'?

And if you want to argue 'fiercely conservative', all you have to do is look at the amount of Republicans that get TV time compared to the amount that Democrats get. And who owns these media. And how the media loves to tire swing and play flag football.

For the amount of whining conservatives do about the 'liberal' radio, television, and such, they sure do own an awful lot of it.

[Arathena]

Gallup Presidential by Demographics:
White: R+19%
Nonwhite: O +63%

East: O+14%
Midwest: O+7%
West: O+2%
South: R+11%

Bat-shit crazy? Or forty years of the Republican Southern Strategy?

[Embar Angylwrath]

I find it hard to accept that half of the population is batshit crazy.

How about we substitute in 'poorly educated, easily misled, and in the grip of a fiercely conservative media'?

And if you want to argue 'fiercely conservative', all you have to do is look at the amount of Republicans that get TV time compared to the amount that Democrats get. And who owns these media. And how the media loves to tire swing and play flag football.

For the amount of whining conservatives do about the 'liberal' radio, television, and such, they sure do own an awful lot of it.

The poorly educated, easily misled meme just doesn't hold water. If it did, urban black populations, which are more poorly educated than just about any other segment of the population, would fall to Romney. Its a big myth that populations outside of urban centers are "poorly educated", and therefore "easily misled". Ouliers like Alabama nothwithstanding.

As to facetime with the media, any politician that wants to open his mouth gets a mike in his face. If a Congressman or Senator calls a press conference the press are there. And there's a reason why AM radio has more right leaning listeners than left leaning ones. Right leaning listeners tend to buy the products advertised on AM radio. Not so much for left leaners. Beleive me, if lefties bought like righties, there'd be parity on the airwaves. And you can't sit there with a straight face and tell me MSNBC doesn't lean left like Fox leans right.

[Harlowe]

I don't believe MSNBC audiences were rated as the least informed.

[Fallakin Kuvari]

Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa! Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa! My lying asshole of a candidate is going to lose Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa! Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!

Fixed

Btw, I'm a batshit crazy fucker.

Thanks for that, Peanut gallery.

[Partha]

The poorly educated, easily misled meme just doesn't hold water. If it did, urban black populations, which are more poorly educated than just about any other segment of the population, would fall to Romney. Its a big myth that populations outside of urban centers are "poorly educated", and therefore "easily misled". Ouliers like Alabama nothwithstanding.

What percentage of people in your Congressional district can name their Congressman? Their Senator? Can describe without going into professor mode how bills are made? Ignorance takes many forms, and it only takes a few minutes of conversation to figure out that most people regardless of race, economics, and general education simply do not get how government works. I wish it were different, believe me.

And as far as the media goes, I remember the runup to Iraq, where rallies with tens of thousands protesting went virtually unreported and uncommented on and antiwar critics were shut off of the airwaves in place of a raft of ex-military types (thank you Pentagon Pundit Program) pushing the party line. It worked so well a majority of Americans actually believed Saddam was working with Al-Qaeda. Tell me again about 'easily misled'?

[Arathena]

The poorly educated, easily misled meme just doesn't hold water. If it did, urban black populations, which are more poorly educated than just about any other segment of the population, would fall to Romney. Its a big myth that populations outside of urban centers are "poorly educated", and therefore "easily misled". Ouliers like Alabama nothwithstanding.

As to facetime with the media, any politician that wants to open his mouth gets a mike in his face. If a Congressman or Senator calls a press conference the press are there. And there's a reason why AM radio has more right leaning listeners than left leaning ones. Right leaning listeners tend to buy the products advertised on AM radio. Not so much for left leaners. Beleive me, if lefties bought like righties, there'd be parity on the airwaves. And you can't sit there with a straight face and tell me MSNBC doesn't lean left like Fox leans right.

Both of these come down to the authoritarian follower personality that the far right wing is founded upon. These are Lindsey Graham's Angry White Men. They are absolutely terrified of the idea of life being anything different from the little corner they know, can and will rationalize any inconsistencies away in order to preserve it, and most of all want to feel safe and protected - and they get this feeling from seeing people outside their identity group punished.

Ergo, "Yes, I will keep you safe by torturing raghead taxi drivers for terror tips." "Buy Gold, so you don't have to worry about that evil Democrat government wrecking your cash!" "Yes, I will keep you safe by declaring pre-emptive war on Iraq." "I'll make sure sluts have to take care of babies after they have sex. Buy your Viagra!" "Yes, I will make sure the nasty Mexican has no way to legally emigrate and no access to health care if he comes anyway." "Yes, I'll make sure the lazy black woman on Welfare goes hungry for getting pregnant." "Yes, I'll keep your historical property chained the way they're supposed to be." (Four score and seven years after the founding of the nation, the Republicans were the liberals...) It appeals to the poor, religious white man because it means everything bad is someone else's fault, someone who's gonna get punished for it.

Our educational system with its massive funding imbalances may not have done a very good job of educating the urban poor, but ill-education isn't stupidity. The Republicans have two major problems attracting the vote of the urban black:

1: An urban life style generally involves contact with many, many, many, many, many more people than a suburban / rural one. This means that maintaining the authoritarian bubble that Republicans appeal to is very difficult; seeing others live differently from yourself and still prosper is the number one way to pop it.

2: The scapegoat's family doesn't vote for the high priest after Yom Kippur.