TSA Epic Fails

[Ddrak]

To get off a no-fly list, don't you first have to know you're on it? Can you direct me to a simple, free method to determine if I'm on any of the lists? I don't want to get to the airport for a holiday to be told I can't go. Perhaps there's some way I can register for notification of being added?

Dd

[Torakus]

To get off a no-fly list, don't you first have to know you're on it? Can you direct me to a simple, free method to determine if I'm on any of the lists? I don't want to get to the airport for a holiday to be told I can't go. Perhaps there's some way I can register for notification of being added?

Dd

Well screening it the last line of defense on this anyway and you shouldn't even get to the screeners but it happens. If you can print your boarding pass online, then you are not on any list. TSA doesn't have its own list they use the FBI Terrorist Screening Center no fly and selectee lists (selectees can fly they just get extra screening).

If for some reason you can print it and then are denied boarding at the gate and you are certain that you are not a terrorist (lol), then DHS has a program called TRIPS. I am pretty sure it is a free online submission of a couple forms and a questionnaire. DHS submits the request for redress to the agency list that you were on. I don't know how long the actual redress process takes but I am told it should not be months like Embar's colleague.

Tora

[Embar Angylwrath]

Ok, so getting granny to strip, frisking 3 year olds and junk checking make us safer. But nevermind the illegals who bypass the required security checks on their way to getting a pilot's licenses (hello Mohammed Atta).

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/tsa-let ... egal-alien

Stephen Lord, who is the GAO's director of Homeland Security and Justice Issues, testified about the matter Wednesday in Rogers' subcommittee. Rogers asked him: "Isn't it true that, based on your report, the Transportation Security Administration cannot assure the American people that foreign terrorists are not in this country learning how to fly airplanes, yes or no?"

Lord responded: "At this time, no."

“ICE found that 25 of the foreign nationals at this flight school had applied to AFSP and had been approved by TSA to begin flight training after their security threat assessment had been completed; however,” reads the GAO report, “the ICE investigation and our subsequent inquiries revealed the following issues, among other things:

--“Eight of the 25 foreign nationals who received approval by TSA to begin flight training were in ‘entry without inspection’ status, meaning they had entered the country illegally. Three of these had obtained FAA airman certificates [pilot’s license]: 2 held FAA private pilot certificates and 1 held an FAA commercial pilot certificate.

--“Seventeen of the 25 foreign nationals who received approval by the TSA to begin flight training were in ‘overstay’ status, meaning they had overstayed their authorized period of admission into the United States.

--“In addition, the flight school owner held two FAA airman certificates. Specifically, he was a certified Airline Transport Pilot (cargo pilot) and a Certified Flight Instructor. However, he had never received a TSA security threat assessment or been approved by TSA to obtain flight training. He had registered with TSA as a flight training provider under AFSP.”

This is how the 911 terrorists took out two buildings. You think TSA could maybe focus on this kind of shit instead of taking off belts and shoes, and engaging in the security theater at the airport.

[Ddrak]

I think it's a red herring. You can learn to fly a plane well enough to hit the broadside of a building for $15 at EB, and flying planes into buildings was the last terror attack, not the next one.

My argument against the TSA is it's a bullshit waste of money with a mandate that's impossible to fulfill, not that they people in the TSA don't try to meet the random political goals set. I place the blame on Congress for spending good money on bad movie-theater plots.

Dd

[Embar Angylwrath]

Agreed. And anyone who thinks TSA is identifying terrorists must have forgotten about the NSA and CIA. They are the agenicies that identify "known terrorisats". If they are "known" and they are a "terrorist", they are fair game to be taken out by drone or sniper or whatever means practical. If a "known terrorist" buys a plane ticket, then wait for them at the airport and take them out. A .22 cal bullet to the back of the head is a much more effective (and much cheaper) terrorist deterrent than checking the genitals of an 80 year old granny.

[Embar Angylwrath]

How about the Biowatch boondoggle? How many billions were spent on that non-functioning piece of shot program, a program that TSA STILL defends as integral to the defense of the US. CDC refuses to cooperate because it's so broken, and bio-terrorism experts have largely panned it as unworkable. More politics?

Huh? BioWatch is DHS not TSA. Funny that CDC lists themselves as a key player (it is their lab response network that tests the canisters) since they "refuse to cooperate"! But since the discussion is TSA not DHS it doesn't really matter right?

Also, are you equating being on a no-fly list to being a "known terrorist"? By the way, those lists are fucked up too. And once you're on one, its incredibly difficult to get off it. One of my business partners got placed on one accidentally. It took him months to get it worked out.

Bullshit on the dark scanners. It's staffing. At least it is at the airport where I dodge them.

You are right people do go on them that are not terrorists, but people who have been linked to support of or carrying out attacks are on there and when several of them all attempt to travel to the same location at the same time and are stopped by the screening process, then I count that a win.

I don't have personal experience with getting off a no-fly list, but I do know the process as outlined does not appear difficult. Perhaps the people who cannot figure out how to fill out and submit the forms to have an incident investigation processed are those best characterized as morons.

My mistake on Biowatch.

So lets turn to the warehouses full of forgotten-about technology that TSA has bought. Remeber the Explosive Trace Detection Portals? The ones where you stood in little half-cylinder and air would puff out of nozzles, and then the air would be measured for trace explosives. Those were, what, $160K a pop? Now they're sitting dark, because TSA never did adequate testing, and therefore didn't discover (until later after much expense and retrofit) that the machines were prone to false positives, and more alarmingly, were rendered useless by higher levels of humidity. Now we have the Rapiscan imaging. Soon to be followed by a laser detection system, if I understand. And funny how better, but less expensive technology is shelved, like Traceguard. And why won't they at least test VR-1000? That's technology looks promising, if they are going to rely on technology.

TSA is now an organization that steers tax dollars to well-connected device manufacturers and the union that covers the employees (why they were allowed to unionize baffles me). It's not effective at stipping guns getting on a plane, hell, even a couple claymores made it onto a plane. How in the fuck is a person able to get two claymores on a plane in carry-on luggage? Inert or not, they weren't even stopped.


As to my friend who got placed on the no-fly list. He has a BS and an MS. Has his own consulting company. One of the smartest guys I know. He's definitely not a moron. If I recall corerctly, after being repeatedly assured he was removed from the list, only to be denied the next time he tried to get a ticket, he demanded (and got) a letter from TSA identifying him as someone that was inadvertantly put on the no-fly list, and that it was ok to allow him to buy a ticket. Which I thought was incredibly stupid because how easy is it to flash a dummied letter?????

Anyway, you're right about the growing pains. My solution.. stop growing.

[Embar Angylwrath]

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505263_162- ... he-system/

So much for the last line of defense. Ex-TSA head says screening procedures are, in short, fucked up.

[Torakus]

Kip Hawley is an administrator and bureaucrat and always was. He is hardly who I would ask for advice on screening procedures. In fact I love how he pans the ban on liquids, especially since that was his baby and was based on a real threat revealed by the British breaking up an actual planned terror attack using a three liquid explosive. Don't forget this is also the knuckle head who made a public challenge to terrorists telling them they were too stupid to get past TSA screening. So I don't know why you think this really means anything.

[Embar Angylwrath]

Because he's the ex-head of the TSA?

So what you're telling me is: 1) A moron used to run the TSA, and his opinion isn't worth shit, AND 2) We're still using protocols instituted by the moron, even though he was a moron.

Nice...

[Torakus]

Because he's the ex-head of the TSA?

So what you're telling me is: 1) A moron used to run the TSA, and his opinion isn't worth shit, AND 2) We're still using protocols instituted by the moron, even though he was a moron.

Nice...

He isn't a moron but saying that a political appointee must necessarily know what he is talking about just because he headed an agency is naive at best, willfully stupid at worst. Do you suppose the Navy takes tactical advice from civilian former SecNavs just because they are former SecNavs? No because many times they are administrators and bureaucrats who know jack and shit about the actual agency mission. Administrator Pistole is a different type altogether. His expertise is in intelligence and the current administration sought him out because that is the direction they initially wanted TSA to take and they have supported him in that regard. Unfortunately they sit silent while he gets roasted by Congress on every other aspect of TSA that he cannot change without their consent.

Good news though, the TSO's now have a signed CBA. Enjoy your new longer wait times America.

[Embar Angylwrath]

Isn't Pistole an Adminstrator Bureaucrat... by definition?

So TSA was headed by someone who, because he was an administrator bureaucrat, was not up to the challenge, but Pistole, another administrative bureaucrat is..... hmmmmm.

You contradict yourself. Your logic isn't consistant.

[Torakus]

Isn't Pistole an Adminstrator Bureaucrat... by definition?

So TSA was headed by someone who, because he was an administrator bureaucrat, was not up to the challenge, but Pistole, another administrative bureaucrat is..... hmmmmm.

You contradict yourself. Your logic isn't consistant.

I will have to pretend you are playing at being stupid here. Kip Hawley's realm of expertise was business management in supply and transportation industries including previous stints with DoT. He was selected both times he served with TSA for these skill sets, not for any knowledge or expertise in counter terrorism, intelligence, law enforcement or screening procedures. Pistole on the other hand was selected for his background in counter terrorism while with the FBI rather than his skills as an administrator of public agencies or businesses.

[Embar Angylwrath]

If Pistole is such a vast improvement, why has he held on to the security procedures developed by a business management guy?

[Torakus]

If Pistole is such a vast improvement, why has he held on to the security procedures developed by a business management guy?

Because he doesn't get to wave his magic wand and change screening procedures at whim like previous administrators. He now has to vet any changes through Congress and that means going through the committee on transportation and infrastructure chaired by John Mica. The same John Mica who receives massive donations from the companies who bid on privatized airport security contracts. Do you really think Pistole has a chance at making significant change when he has to fight through an open conflict of interest like that? As for 3-1-1, I have explained that one before as well and the airport authorities lobby the shit out of the committee to keep that because it increases revenues at the airports.

Risk Based Screening = Pistole's legacy and its stated goal is to create a less intrusive screening process that focuses real threats and travelers who fit higher risk profiles. But shit doesn't happen over night in the best of times and when you have to fight a committee chairman like Mica for every inch, even when your goal is in line with what the public is demanding.....well I guess you can see what happens.

[Ddrak]

Sounds like Homeland Security would be better merged into the FBI and not have the micromanaged oversight.

Dd

[Embar Angylwrath]

http://www.travelunderground.org/index. ... isaSimeone

Nice running list of some TSA crap, certainly not exhaustive, I imagine there a couple hundred more unreported for every incident that is reported. This old quote ought to be their motto: “The more we do to you, the less you seem to believe we are doing it.”

Biggest waste of taxpayer dollars while simultaneously being the biggest intrusion into the rights of Americans (until Obama uses excutive authority to initiate the cyber=security measures he's been mulling)

[Torakus]

Bullshit list.

I went to the bottom as suggested so I will start with the insulin pump business. This girls pump was not broken. No insulin pump has ever been broken by TSA screening. There has NEVER been a documented case of the software in an insulin pump being corrupted by x-rays. The manufacturers simply do not test them and therefore out of an abundance of caution (and lack of knowledge regarding backscatter technology) recommend that they no go through the AIT. That is fine TSA is happy to pat them down or have them go through the WTMD. But the fact of the matter is that the x-rays produced by the backscatter machines do not pass through the device (or not many anyway). These are not transmission x-rays we are talking about.

Second claim. "Since she has two metal knees, the TSA person sticks a wand up her dress as if she is getting a pelvic exam. What law allows poorly educated and unskilled people to examine my wife’s and my private areas?"

TSA hasn't used wands for some time, alarmed areas are patted down, and since this claim was made in May 2012 I call bullshit. And what standards of education is he looking for. The screeners are educated and skilled in screening operations. That is their job. Did you expect folks with masters in political science or something to pat you down?

Next up. After passing through the screening device we were told that she will have to undergo a full body search. When I asked if this was necessary and suggested that they look for real terrorists I was threatened with security. By that time my mother was visibly shaken. When I reached out to help her walk and comfort her, I was told not to touch her and if I did I too would have to undergo body search!

TSA does not do full body search. TSA conducts targeted pat downs to resolve alarmed areas, or standard pat downs for people who opt out of electronic screening methods. I seriously doubt she was threatened by anyone. The checkpoints at ATL are covered by CCTV that is recorded and archived. If she had been threatened the officer would have been disciplined or terminated. Yes if you come into contact with a passenger who is undergoing additional screening for whatever reason, then you must also be screened. This is done so that a person with prohibited items who is selected for screening cannot simply pass the item to another passenger who is not in queue for additional screening.

I could go on but why bother. Lots of emotion, very little verifiable fact, lots of total rubbish.

Tora

[Embar Angylwrath]

http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/88310.pdf

TSA guidelines for hand-wanding diplomats. And we should think that "ordinary" passengers are held to less?

Drink more kool-aid...

As to the medical devices... TSA has a long track record of interfering with medical devices. Fuck you and your spinning of "software in an insulin pump", you sound like a shill for the Obama truth-parsing campaign.

And I hope Napolitano gets his/her ass handed to him/her on the female favoritism lawsuit. I really don't care if Napolitano is a carpet munching dyke, (hell, I'm a dyke trapped in a man's body), but protecting a sexually abusive gender confused dyke? Hell that's only tolerated in a Dem admin.

Oh wait...

[Torakus]

Embar,

http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/88310.pdf

TSA guidelines for hand-wanding diplomats. And we should think that "ordinary" passengers are held to less?

Drink more kool-aid...

That memo was from 2007 when we still used hand wands. In case you missed it, it is now 2012. Government agencies constantly executed MOAs (memorandums of agreement) between themselves that do not apply to "ordinary" Americans.

I am not drinking the kool-aid. I have access to the Standard Operating Procedures and I am at the check points every week watching these folks do their job.

TSA has a long track record of interfering with medical devices.

Care to provide proof of this? TSA takes great care to avoid interfering with medical devices and allows for alternative screening procedures for those who request it. I am not spinning shit. No passenger or insulin pump manufacturer has EVER shown that backscatter x-rays (again these are non transmission x-rays that do not penetrate the device) can damage the software on these pumps. EVERY single claim or damage is the result of the manufacturers telling the users that they do not recommend that they take them through the AIT. TSA has done something that these manufacturers have not. TSA TESTED IT. Yes TSA has a test facility, at Reagan International where they send millions of items a week through every different combination of screening equipment that you can think of. Oh by the way, most insulin pump users actually send them through the cabinet x-ray (carry on baggage) which ARE transmission x-rays (which pass through the object) and none have reported failure of their insulin pumps.

So who is drinking Kool-aid here? I seem to have a lot of fact based information regarding the issue and you have a lot of emotion. So fuck you and your nonsense, you sound like a shill for the John Mica truth avoiding club.

I have no opinion on the Napolitano issue, I was out at HQ all week and have not had a chance to read up on it.

Tora

[Embar Angylwrath]

Ok, I'll give you the wanding thing. It has been a few years. I do remember getting wanding myself, but that hasn't happened in a while.

If TSA is so careful with medical devices, why do they constantly end up in the news about interfering with them? I'm not talking about electromagnetic interference, I'm talking about human hands fiddling with things they shouldn't be fiddling with. What was the last incident... a feeding tube, right? The moron that put his nasty hands on that, (while wearing the same gloves he's used to touch the last 100 people) could have esily given that lady sepsis in her abdominal cavity. Somehtng that could have gone from zero to critical in the space of a couple hours. He could have killed her.

In the briefing you claim every TSA drooler gets before a shift, why can't the supervisor say "And rememeber kiddies... no touchy touchy of medical related devices or equipment". I remain steadfast in my opinion that TSA screeners, as the "last line of defense", are horribly managed, horribly trained, and do NOTHING to stop a dedicated terrorist, or even more chilling, an organized terrorist cell.

And you know as well as I that TSA has created target opportunities for terrorists. The 200 people in a looped queue is a tremendous target opportunity for a suicide bomber, with grouping of civilians almost tailor made for maximum casualty enhancement. That is thanks to the TSA screening. Its only a matter of time before that happens, and when it does, TSA will be complicit in the deaths of those people.