More Powah!

[Minute]

I've been following this story since somewhere around the first of the year.

http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/201 ... si-success

Normally I write this stupid shit off, but this seems to be persistently impressive. I think Dd posted on it a while back too, but couldn't find the thread. Whatcho guys think? Super Cool or BS f00l?

[Ddrak]

Looks interesting, but I can see why the community is skeptical.

Dd

[Arathena]

Just off the mass differentials, you can drive a Ni+H -> Cu reaction at about 14% of the output of the classic D+T. But, uh, it takes a LOT of push to get things into nuclei heavier than 56.

Easy way to get a real test: Run it unshielded in a wire chamber. If it pisses positrons at an incomprehensible rate, you has fusion. Alternately, throw it in a mass spec after a few days. Lots of Ni-59? Then you has fusion.

[Minute]

Man am I glad I have you super nerds to make technological advancements for me. I don't have a fucking clue what you just said but it sounded cool. Probably isn't said enough but thanks for your sacrifices.

[Ddrak]

The papers published on this suggest that they're "cloaking" protons by binding electrons to them in such a way that it forms neither a Hydrogen atom or a neutron. The cloaked protons are therefore not subject to coulomb repulsion and only split up once the strong nuclear force pulls them apart.

Looking at the reaction, it seems they are suggesting the following:

58Ni + H/e pair -> 59Cu + e
59Cu -> 59Ni + p
p + e -> 2 x 511keV Gamma Rays

Repeat until you get to 63Cu which doesn't decay.

That means 10 x 511keV Gamma Rays per reaction chain, also delivering 37MeV of fusion power, which means the 500kW reactor is theoretically blowing out around 67kW of ionizing gamma rays (assuming their reaction chain is correct). Now, I may be somewhat of a skeptic in saying this, but I STRONGLY suspect there wasn't 67kW of gamma rays dumping out of that container while Rossi was standing beside it.

Also note that during the demonstration, the generator remained attached to the device and was running. I would believe this more if they visibly disconnected the generator or had an independent third party verifying that no current was flowing in that wire.

Sadly, I'm gonna call shenanigans on this one.

Dd

[Arathena]

The papers published on this suggest that they're "cloaking" protons by binding electrons to them in such a way that it forms neither a Hydrogen atom or a neutron. The cloaked protons are therefore not subject to coulomb repulsion and only split up once the strong nuclear force pulls them apart.

Looking at the reaction, it seems they are suggesting the following:

58Ni + H/e pair -> 59Cu + e
59Cu -> 59Ni + p
p + e -> 2 x 511keV Gamma Rays

Repeat until you get to 63Cu which doesn't decay.

That means 10 x 511keV Gamma Rays per reaction chain, also delivering 37MeV of fusion power, which means the 500kW reactor is theoretically blowing out around 67kW of ionizing gamma rays (assuming their reaction chain is correct). Now, I may be somewhat of a skeptic in saying this, but I STRONGLY suspect there wasn't 67kW of gamma rays dumping out of that container while Rossi was standing beside it.

Also note that during the demonstration, the generator remained attached to the device and was running. I would believe this more if they visibly disconnected the generator or had an independent third party verifying that no current was flowing in that wire.

Sadly, I'm gonna call shenanigans on this one.

Dd

... ... See, that's not actually a sane proposition, as far as I can tell. There's a reason that electrons sit in the orbitals that they do - because to sit anywhere else, and still be stably bound to the nucleus, they have to undergo spontaneous existence failure. The 1s orbital is precisely one wavelength. You cannot get smaller!

It is possible to "mask" a nuclear proton from the electronic structure of a chemical reaction by substituting a muon or tau for a shell electron - because of their higher mass, the wave function permits a much 'tighter' orbital, but they still behave like normal nuclei.

[Ddrak]

Turns out there's quite a few more flaws in their claims:

- They are measuring output power by assuming the steam is completely dry when it's been observed as "white" rather than colorless. Others have done the calcs and a 5% quality steam would match the input heating.
- The inventor is claiming to next determine a way to convert steam to electricity and it should only take a year or two of funding for him to figure that one out. (I thought we already knew this one)
- The resultant copper has exactly the same percentages of isotopes as found in nature suggesting it's actually a contaminant and not a reaction product.
- Any transition via radioactive isotopes of Copper will give of insane beta radiation, and won't all be gone in the 10 hour experiment duration.
- 11% Iron was in the results. This just isn't possible with fusion - it's going the wrong way.
- The theoretical physics was rejected at peer review.
- The inventor (Rossi) has been involved in past energy scams.
- Claims have varied wildly from 200x energy return to about 6x now.
- He refuses to partake in blind tests.
- Use of 2cm of lead as a gamma ray shield...

Dd

[Arathena]

Turns out there's quite a few more flaws in their claims:

- They are measuring output power by assuming the steam is completely dry when it's been observed as "white" rather than colorless. Others have done the calcs and a 5% quality steam would match the input heating.
- The inventor is claiming to next determine a way to convert steam to electricity and it should only take a year or two of funding for him to figure that one out. (I thought we already knew this one)
- The resultant copper has exactly the same percentages of isotopes as found in nature suggesting it's actually a contaminant and not a reaction product.
- Any transition via radioactive isotopes of Copper will give of insane beta radiation, and won't all be gone in the 10 hour experiment duration.
- 11% Iron was in the results. This just isn't possible with fusion - it's going the wrong way.
- The theoretical physics was rejected at peer review.
- The inventor (Rossi) has been involved in past energy scams.
- Claims have varied wildly from 200x energy return to about 6x now.
- He refuses to partake in blind tests.
- Use of 2cm of lead as a gamma ray shield...

Dd

lawl @ #1. Iron in the target would be a good sign if-and-only-if lighter isotopes of Nickel were expected; 57Ni and lighter decay to Fe, however, only 58, 60, 61, and 62 Ni occur in meaningful quantities in natural ore.