"Buffet" Tax

[Ddrak]

Who's going to come out smelling better on this one? I don't see the GOP gaining too many votes wanting to die in a ditch on ensuring high income earners pay the same effective tax rate as middle earners but then again, spin can do amazing things.

Dd

[MeGusta]

Let's make sure people are being honest about what is discussed here.

The top earners do pay more income tax than any other cross section at 39% for incomes in the top bracket. If it is investment income, however, they pay a maximum of 15%.

Be wary of conflating sources of income. That is where a charge of class warfare comes from.

[Lurker]

You need to look at effective tax rates and you need to consider all sources of income and all types of taxes when figuring out what percentage people are paying.

To quote myself from over a year ago...

You can't just look at federal income taxes. Total tax burden must be taken into account. I think it would be bad tax policy and worse economic policy to increase the burden on people who can least afford it.

And while a superficial look at the numbers can make it seem like the wealthy are getting hosed, the fact is their tax burden has gone down more than any other demographic. The reason their share of total taxes has continued to rise while their actual tax burden has gone down can be seen in the graph below.



The wealthy have seen their tax burden fall while their income has soared. The middle class and lower class have stagnated. Any changes to the tax code must address that problem.

That isn't class warfare. It's basic fairness. It's a progressive tax system. And it's the only way to have a functioning economy.

[Embar Angylwrath]

I think its fair to include federally imposed taxes, because that's what the proposal is all about. State, local and sales taxes are not part of the equation.

That said, those with $1 million in income pay 29% of that in federal taxes (not just income tax), those between $50,000 and $75,000 pay 15%. The top 10% pay half of all federal taxes and 70% of income taxes. So the rich are already paying their fair share.

(At the $40,000 to $50,000, people pay 15%, and between $20,000 and $30,000, they pay 5.7%.. again, not just income taxes but all federal taxzes)

http://www.usatoday.com/money/perfi/tax ... 50480226/1

[Lurker]

Embar,

Please answer these questions.

1) How did the share of total federal tax receipts increase for top earners even though their actual federal tax burden has decreased? Hint: The answer is in the chart I posted, and yeah... it does matter.

2) Can we have a working economy if more and more wealth is concentrated with fewer and fewer individuals?

3) Nobody, not even the most rabid Teapublican, has proposed enough spending cuts to resolve the deficit problem with cuts alone so any solution is going to require additional revenue. Where do you suggest we get that revenue? And if your answer focuses on anyone other than the top earners, see question 2.

[Fallakin Kuvari]

2) Can we have a working economy if more and more wealth is concentrated with fewer and fewer individuals?

China seems to be doing just fine.

Not that I want to see our country turn into China, though there are certainly some Maoists in this administration.

[Ddrak]

The question is whether there should be an AMT-style arrangement to prevent the super-wealthy from paying significantly lower effective tax rates than others. This means pulling numbers about the "top 1%" aren't really showing anything - you want something more like the "top 500" - people earning more than $100m/year.

Obviously, if you believe that these people are already paying more in tax then introducing something to make sure they don't pay less would have zero effect, right?

I'm also 100% positive there are no "Maoists" in the administration and that China is far from "fine".

Dd

[Fallakin Kuvari]

You'd be 50% wrong. Because there are in fact "Maoists" in this administration.

We can all agree that China is not, in fact, doing fine. They do "seem" to be doing just fine, but thats just the image they portray to the world.

[Jarochai Alabaster]

Agreeing with a statement someone makes does not make you an "-ist" of that person. And frankly, power does largely grow out of the barrel of a gun - political power included.

I must be a "Maoist."

[Fallakin Kuvari]

Agreeing with a statement someone makes does not make you an "-ist" of that person. And frankly, power does largely grow out of the barrel of a gun - political power included.

I must be a "Maoist."

Anita Dunn telling a high school commencement audience that the murderous Chairman Mao was one of her "two favorite philosophers."

[Kulaf]

I am all for tax simplification. If nothing else this should spawn some conversation on the issue.

My friend had an interesting notion about totally inverting the tax system. For example instead of paying most of your taxes to the Feds, you would pay it to your local city/county. Then the state would tax/charge your city/county for services it provides, and the federal government would tax/charge the states for services it provides. I don't believe it is workable, but I thought it was an interesting idea that would certainly keep your tax dollars closer to home.

[Jarochai Alabaster]

I wouldn't know Mao's skill at waxing philosophical (Nor would I care, as I find philosophy generally useless). The same applies - just because someone appreciated a singular aspect of a tyrant does not mean they fully endorse the tyrant. I believe Hitler was well-spoken, and appreciate his ability to energize a crowd. Doesn't mean I agree with what he said.

[Lurker]

Looks like Fallakin is still suckling on the tit of a certain deranged self-promoting ass-clown.

[Fallakin Kuvari]

I wouldn't know Mao's skill at waxing philosophical (Nor would I care, as I find philosophy generally useless). The same applies - just because someone appreciated a singular aspect of a tyrant does not mean they fully endorse the tyrant. I believe Hitler was well-spoken, and appreciate his ability to energize a crowd. Doesn't mean I agree with what he said.

The point is, he wasn't a philosopher. He was a tyrant who killed literally millions of people in the name of Communism.

[Lurker]

Hey Beck fanboy, can you tell us who Anita Dunn paired Mao with as her other "favorite philosopher" in her prepared speech?

Any chance she was making an ironic point and that a certain self-promoting ass-clown cherry picked a few words from her speech because it fit his "OMG Obama is a Moaist!!" fear-mongering?

And your other example, also beamed directly into your empty head by Glenn Beck, was even more idiotic. After all this time you still have no clue how dumb you look when you come here and parrot Beck.

Answer: Mother Theresa

[Fallakin Kuvari]

And you have no clue how dumb you look whenever you parrot Media Matters. <3

Here you go, here is her words again:



Fact is, she was not making an "ironic point". She was actually putting him up on a pedestal as a good example.

[Lurker]

She was actually putting him up on a pedestal as a good example

Not really. She was using a quote by Mao, "You fight your war, and I'll fight mine", to make a point. Just like she used a quote from Mother Theresa, "Find your own Calcutta", to illustrate the same point. She was telling students to find their own way.

And her line pairing Moa and Mother Theresa got a good laugh from the audience.

But thanks for posting the video (from Glenn Becks show no less. Nice job, fanboy) so that people could watch for themselves.

And as previously stated, your other example was even more idiotic. As Jaro already said.

[Minute]

Evil is not the same as stupid. A good portion of military strategy is derived directly from some of the most ruthless pieces of shit ever to live. You don't get to a position of power like that without being pretty smart & to suggest that because someone was a horrible human during their life that they never said or had a good idea is plain naive.

[Fallakin Kuvari]

Those were her words, no matter who's show it was on, and my interpretation is that she actually meant what she said. She did not seem like she was trying to be ironic or funny, even if a few indoctrinated high schoolers did happen to have a nice guffaw.

[Fallakin Kuvari]

Lol iPhone double post.