Senate shake-up

[Embar Angylwrath]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34973418/ns ... re_reform/

Pelosi throws in the towel on the Senate bill. Ain't happening in the House.

[Embar Angylwrath]

Looks like they are starting to get it.

Rep. Eliot Engel, D-N.Y. has a stern warning for his party:

I think people think we’re not doing enough on the economy, we’re not doing enough on jobs, we’re not doing enough on employment, and perhaps we’re doing too much on healthcare, that people’s priority right now — people are hurting. Right now, their priority is jobs and the economy. Healthcare is not the priority. If we look like that we are hellbent on making healthcare the No. 1 priority regardless of how much pain is out there, then I think we do it at our own peril.

Foreclosures up, unemployment over 10%, underemployment over 17%, news of more job losses, banks handing out big bonuses...the Dems had blinders on and lost sight of what's really important to the electorate. If they get back on track, they may be able to soften the bloodletting at the polls in 10 months.

Obama made the right populist move.. he'all but baiting the banking industry into a fight. He'd better be careful though, becuase he's already being perceived as weak and impotent. If he loses a fight he picks, he's done.

[Partha]

Now... I'm hoping that some reasonable, actual, incremental reform takes place.

You may stop lying at any time, you know. Oh, wait. You mean reform as in 'get rid of'. Gotcha.

[Embar Angylwrath]

You may have missed my suggestions on where to start with the reform. I forgive you, I know its hard to read clearly between bouts of uncontrollable sobbing.

[Partha]

Elimination is not reform. We are wise to your game. I hear Haiti is good this time of year for the no-government types.

[Kulaf]

Man, that's cold.

[Embar Angylwrath]

http://tpmlivewire.talkingpointsmemo.co ... reform.php

From Talking Points Memo, a left leaning political commentary site. They just posted a video montage of Obama and his statements on healthcare. Its pretty damning of Obama. Never thought I'd see the left eat their own young.. oh wait..

[Lurker]

How is a video of Obama advocating for health reform "damning of Obama"? It'll be pathetic if the Democrats in Congress are too cowardly to finish the job or if Obama allows the issue to fail without a fight, but the video montage of past advocacy are not damning.

[Embar Angylwrath]

What's damning (read the comments on that page about the video), is that the left feel that Obama has been all hat, no cattle, on this issue. He gives good speeches, but can't advance his agenda. He makes promises, and can't fulfill them. The two elements of the left (fringe left idealists and more moderate centrists) have been going at each other on that board, its like a knife fight in the sewer. Both are blaming each other (or rather their particular idealogies) for sinking healthcare reform.

On one side, the pragmatists are saying.. pass the fucking bill while we still can, we have the votes, we'll work out the details later.

The other side is saying the Senate bill is a piece of shit, that it abandons the principles of the left, and no bill is better than that bill (Howard Dean parrots)

And both sides are calling each other traitors to the cause for their stance on the issue. Its amazing to watch. I really thought the left would use this as a wake-up call, get serious and pass the bill. I really thought they's push the Senate Bill through (they still might, but it looks doubtful). If I was a Democrat that beleived in this issue, I'd be for getting something, anything, passed, and work on shaping it and refining it later. But instead of that, the left seems to be devouring itself. That video is a good example. TPM just tossed Obama under the bus, its a scathing criticism of his inability to enact reform. That's gotta hurt.

[Lurker]

That was probably the most accurate post you've ever made. I agree with every word. And as a progressive who's wanted to pass the Senate bill for weeks (remember Partha and I argued about it), I would be extremely disgusted in the Democratic Party if they abandon the issue simply because Kennedy got cancer and Coakley ran a horrible campaign. It would be a sign of moral cowardice.

This cartoon is brilliant:

[Ddrak]

Love the cartoon, Lurker.

Dd

[Embar Angylwrath]

That was probably the most accurate post you've ever made. I agree with every word. And as a progressive who's wanted to pass the Senate bill for weeks (remember Partha and I argued about it), I would be extremely disgusted in the Democratic Party if they abandon the issue simply because Kennedy got cancer and Coakley ran a horrible campaign. It would be a sign of moral cowardice.

Moral cowardice... perhaps. But my opinion of Congress (and most elected officials) is that morals don't normally apply. Fingers in the political wind do.

Right now, the gut-checks going on in the Dem party are probably more about how to position for re-election than doing the "right" (left) thing. Conservative and some centrist Dems are backing away from the bill altogether. Leftisit fringe elements are pushing back against the Senate version, and remarkably, not only because they disagree with it, but because they feel like they need to help shape the outcome for their political legacy. Its mind-boggling to the average Joe on the street that some politicians would scuttle a deal because they aren't getting enough credit.

So now, the entire Dem party is now split on the issue, with contradicting positions from the rank and file, from leadership, and from the White House. Rank and file are breaking for the hills, leadership is pushing the reconcilliation angle, and the White House is sending hints that a scaled down version of reform with bipartisan support is preferable.

Here's what needs to happen on this, if the Dems want to pull out a Hail Mary save... Obama needs to send a strong signal to the Dems of what he will sign and what he won't sign. And then he needs to march to the Hill and start twisting arms. He needs to force Pelosi and Reid onto the same page. In essence, he needs to tell the Dem leaders and rank and file that if they don't follow his lead on this, they will deserve the executions many of them will receive in the coming elections. If Obama can stand up, lead, force, cajole or otherwise scare/persuade both leadership and rank and file, he can have a bill on his desk in a week or so. If he doesn't take a strong position on this, this, along with most of his opther agenda, will end in the dumpster.

He really has nothing to lose by gambling it all.

[Lurker]

Obama is doing the best he can with the Congress he has. As for Congress, we didn't send them to Washington so they could look after their own re-election. Under the best scenario the Democrats are going to lose seats in November. If they fail to deliver on health reform after spending a year working on it and getting this close, they are going to lose a lot of seats. The fact that Republicans are engaged in lockstep opposition and are not acting in good faith won't matter. If the Democrats can't deliver on their agenda, the knowledge that Republican policies are damaging for the country won't be enough motivation to get enough Democrats to the polls.

[Fallakin Kuvari]

Your best scenario's are certainly worse for the Democrats than Michael Steele's version of best scenario for the Dems (in which he thinks they'll lose next to zero seats).

As for Obama marching to the hill and twisting some arms... Not going to happen, the guy has shown multiple times that he has absolutely no backbone. He's not going to stand up for himself on this, either.

If his plan for the banking industry falls flat, he's done politically.

[Kulaf]

Obama is doing the best he can with the Congress he has. As for Congress, we didn't send them to Washington so they could look after their own re-election. Under the best scenario the Democrats are going to lose seats in November. If they fail to deliver on health reform after spending a year working on it and getting this close, they are going to lose a lot of seats. The fact that Republicans are engaged in lockstep opposition and are not acting in good faith won't matter. If the Democrats can't deliver on their agenda, the knowledge that Republican policies are damaging for the country won't be enough motivation to get enough Democrats to the polls.

The problem with looking at the Republicans as being in lockstep opposition to healthcare reform is that......if you think healthcare reform will be a disaster for the country as written.....how can you support it. A shit sandwhich with some miracle whip on it is still a shit sandwhich.

[Harlowe]

Healthcare reform a shit sandwich? Seriously? That's just ignorant. They are lockstep against anything that comes from the Dems and you know it. Spare us the "noble" cause bullshit.

[Kulaf]

No it's not ignorant. All of this is predicated on Medicare reform paying for it. Congress just barely seems to have the will to pass this. Do you honestly think they will pass Medicare reform? And if they don't this will be a nightmare of cost that all of us will eat.

So how do you like your shit sandwhich? With mustard or mayo?

[Lurker]

The revenue saving Medicare reforms scored by the CBO are already in the bill. So yeah, you are being ignorant.

[Harlowe]

The revenue saving Medicare reforms scored by the CBO are already in the bill. So yeah, you are being ignorant.

Apparently Kulaf thinks he knows better than the CBO.

[Embar Angylwrath]

Healthcare reform a shit sandwich? Seriously? That's just ignorant. They are lockstep against anything that comes from the Dems and you know it. Spare us the "noble" cause bullshit.

Thats not accurate Harlowe. There has been some cross party votes on some issues. Sure, the Reps have been united on the healthare issue, but not on all issues. Also, comments like yours seem to deflect from the fact that no Rep votes were ever needed for the bill to pass. The Dems could have done it all by themselves if they wanted. If the cause was "noble", why didn't the Dems get the bill to Obama?

You can't lay this at the feet of the Reps. The Dems didnt need them to pass healthcare reform. Failure to pass healthcare reform is entirely on the Dems.