SOMEONE'S gonna need health care

[Lurker]

I don't think you can lay claim that the SEIU is not being violent.

That's nice, cause I didn't. Only one of us is whitewashing violence.

[Fallakin Kuvari]

Now as far as I know, there has been no physical violence from the "misinformed" people you seem to be saying are also violent. Are they loud? Yes. Are they angry? Yes. Are they pounding on doors? Yes. Are they physically fighting back when they're attacked by these thugs? No.

[Harlowe]

Sorry, but the Teabaggers and 9/12 nutballs are committing violence. Just like the union workers who step out of line are. I could point out that the subsequent acts wouldn't have happened without the initial violence, but I don't want to excuse wrongdoing.

[Lurker]

Heh. I missed this gem.

Well when I'm talking about "misinformed" I'm talking about misinformed people who are asking questions and either not getting straight answers or answers that they know in their gut are bold faced lies.

First of all, they usually can't hear the answer because of all the screaming. Secondly, the reason they "know in their gut" whatever answer they get is a lie is because they've been misinformed by the likes of Hannity, Beck, and Rush. See how all this works?

[Fallakin Kuvari]

Now as far as I know, there has been no physical violence from the "misinformed" people you seem to be saying are also violent. Are they loud? Yes. Are they angry? Yes. Are they pounding on doors? Yes. Are they physically fighting back when they're attacked by these thugs? No.

[Fallakin Kuvari]

Heh. I missed this gem.

Well when I'm talking about "misinformed" I'm talking about misinformed people who are asking questions and either not getting straight answers or answers that they know in their gut are bold faced lies.

First of all, they usually can't hear the answer because of all the screaming. Secondly, the reason they "know in their gut" whatever answer they get is a lie is because they've been misinformed by the likes of Hannity, Beck, and Rush. See how all this works?

Sorry, but if I ask someone a question and they start giving me the run around (or talk around, which would be more correct) I'm going to assume that they're lying to me.

[Lurker]

Give me a health care reform related example of a legitimate question and an evasive answer.

[Fallakin Kuvari]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YvzLDb2igKM

To me it seems like all he does is "circle talk". He doesn't come off genuine or straight-forward to me when I listen to him, so it seems like every answer is evasive.

So really, asking me to give you an example is going to lead to me linking you him answering questions from the press conference. I watched and listened to the whole thing, and it just gets to the point when I'm listening to him that I don't believe a word he is saying.

Steve Driehaus talking about End of Life care. Doesn't really seem like he's being straightforward, either.

[Lurker]

Ha! You're linking the entire Obama press conference? Can you just give one example of a legitimate question from a town hall event and an evasive answer? That's what we were talking about.

Steve Driehause sounds perfectly reasonable talking about end of life decisions. It sounds more like you don't have a clue what the end-of-life counseling provisions in the reform bill, which were proposed by a Republican btw, are actually about. In other words, no matter what your gut says, you are probably just misinformed.

Maybe this will help you out.

[Fallakin Kuvari]

To clarify: it actually is just one question he answered in the press conference. Like I said though, every time he answers a question it sounds like (to me) he is being evasive.

[Fallakin Kuvari]

See, this is what I don't get. Why do they need something in there about living wills? I understand not everyone may be smart enough to have one, but you would think having one would be the most common sense thing to do. Besides, doesn't putting that kind of language into this kind of bill invite this kind of crazy view on it?

[Lurker]

The provision in the reform bill makes getting a living will a reimbursable service through Medicare. That's all.

If it wasn't this provision it would be something else. The video you linked with the onscreen text is complete and total disinformation. The only purpose of it is to misinform people so they can then go to town halls and scream and know in their gut they are being lied to when they really aren't.

Edit: And for christ's sake, LEARN FROM THIS. Whatever source told you to fear that provision in the reform bill is not to be trusted. As you said, it's a "crazy view", and yet you'll be back to same trough for more of this poisonous idiocy.

[Fallakin Kuvari]

I realized the text on the video was more misleading, which is why I relistened to it without watching it.

Still, I think they should spell it out more clearly: "HAI GAIZ, THIS IS FOR LIVING WILLS K?"

[Fallakin Kuvari]

I may be back to the same "trough", but I at least try to counterbalance that with other sources.

Sometimes I can't cover all my bases, though.

[Harlowe]

Still, I think they should spell it out more clearly: "HAI GAIZ, THIS IS FOR LIVING WILLS K?"

I agree with that. The more clearly they state it, the better - especially in this environment. But really, no matter what they say, people are being pumped so full of negative, irrational bullshit that of course their "gut feeling" is going to be fear, distrust etc. Especially if they look to the same people for information. The same people that cater to birthers and the idea that Obama is racist and like Hitler and he's putting together "death panels' to decide who can live and die.

What could Obama possibly say to counter all that? The seeds have not only been planted they are being watered, nurtured and fertilized by bullshit daily.

The usual suspects at Fox - Beck, Hannity, O'Reilly ...hell now Palin is opening up her piehole on Facebook talking complete and utter trash. What in the world is going to diffuse something that has an endless source of rocket fuel?

[Lurker]

Obama was very clear about the end of life counseling provision and living wills. Skip to 42 mintues for the "clause forcing seniors to choose how they want to die" question.



Driehause gave an answer that assumed some knowledge on the part of the listener. Obama does a better job of laying out the whole issue.


======

I may be back to the same "trough", but I at least try to counterbalance that with other sources.

Sometimes I can't cover all my bases, though.

You'd go a long way towards covering your bases if you just stopped listening to untrustworthy sources. Take a look at who pushed the "end of life" bullshit and who didn't. Stop listening to those that did. (Both Beck and Goldberg pushed the idea that the clause was an opening to eugenics)

[Harlowe]

You'd think people that listen to guys like crying, melodramatic, dishonest hacks like Beck would get tired of being chumps.

[Fallakin Kuvari]

Beck is a good source, on some issues. He has likened Obama to a Socialist/Facist. He is on the whole "They're gonna kill Grandma" kick. Hes not on with the Birthers, though... in fact he comes off as thinking they're nuts.

[Harlowe]

A person that incites people with their histrionic, melodramatic, fear-mongering "newstainment" is NOT a good source for anything. A person is much, MUCH better off looking for a less emotionally driven source where you don't have to go "hmm is he lying and having a dramafest or does he have a point this time". Seriously..

Fox's only hope is Shep. Other than him, they are all a bunch of raging clowns.

Embar says he gets a lot of his news from NPR, and even though they won't refer to "torture" as torture yet - they aren't histrionic about delivering the news. You also actually get WORLD news on it.

[Lurker]

Heh. I'd like to know what issue Beck is a good source of information for?

NPR is ok, but they do employ Fox News contributors Mara Liason and Juan Williams. You still have to check the bias against other sources.