Octomom, and implantation restrictions ?

[Ariannda Kusanagi]

I'm a little bit surprised that no one has brought up Octomom yet (or maybe they have and I simply missed the thread) however because of this woman certain issues are beginning to come to light. Ethics and Morality are leading the way. As of now a Senator in Georgia is suggesting a bill that would limit the number of embryo's to be implanted into a woman under the age of 40 to be 2.

http://www.fiercehealthcare.com/story/w ... 2009-03-05

Thoughts on this ?

Personally I don't even care about her marital status, or her employment (those are just kind of side issues imo) while i DO care about the fact she had SIX other children at home. Now clearly if she wants to have more children she should have every right... but 8 at once ? Why was ONE embryo, or 2 implanted ? She still could have had quads but the risk of 8 children is a risk to the mother, a risk to the fetuses and thats not even considering the other children at home. The sideline that ties into all of this is not necessarily the lack of employment but the lack of insurance, leaving the state of California tax payers to pay for the huge cost of 8 pre-term babies in the NICU and their specialized care, plus the long term complications and disabilities that she receives money for . I'm certainly not suggesting she's working the system, because it seems the most extreme way possible to do so. The whole ordeal with this woman specifically begs many questions which may not be answered. If her sperm donor is aware of the children, isn't he liable for child support (for example) as opposed to not being liable if she'd received an anon donation through a sperm bank ?

I was just wondering what others thought of both the Octomom as well as the embryonic implantation restriction idea.

[Embar Angylwrath]

You want the government in your womb?

[Partha]

So you're pro-choice, then, Embar?

[Mukik]

good luck enforcing the sperm donor angle. Rumor mill says the Donor is from mexico. Fuck this, put a bullet in her head and outsource the kids to south america to make clothes

[Freecare Spiritwise]

I think the mom is kinda cute.

[Ddrak]

They usually implant 3-4 and terminate multiples if it happens (not all take). Her doctor was complicit with her Jolie fixation.

Dd

[Ariannda Kusanagi]

Embar, if I get to the point where I have 4 or more kids, and I'm having 4 embryos implanted because i want "one more child" then yes, I think someone should step it. It's not about terminating embryos that implant, that should be a viable option for the intelligent people who have 6 kids and decide that 8 more is a BAD idea... oh wait I don't know a single person who if they HAD 6 kids already would be implanting 4 more, or wanting 1 more child, but I suppose thats a moot point. Ethically someone fucked up. What about the welfare of all those children ? What about the special needs children she already has and the good possibility she'll have more? If she had been married, and this had happened, and then something had happened to her husband then I would feel terrible for her, although still amazed SOMEONE let her have MORE kids after having 6 to begin with (there's a difference between 1 more, and 8 more) but she as a single, unemployed woman made this choice and someone needs to step in eventually and say enough's enough.

[Embar Angylwrath]

So you're pro-choice, then, Embar?

Always have been. I just don't discriminate against babies though. They have a choice too.

[Embar Angylwrath]

Embar, if I get to the point where I have 4 or more kids, and I'm having 4 embryos implanted because i want "one more child" then yes, I think someone should step it. It's not about terminating embryos that implant, that should be a viable option for the intelligent people who have 6 kids and decide that 8 more is a BAD idea... oh wait I don't know a single person who if they HAD 6 kids already would be implanting 4 more, or wanting 1 more child, but I suppose thats a moot point. Ethically someone fucked up. What about the welfare of all those children ? What about the special needs children she already has and the good possibility she'll have more? If she had been married, and this had happened, and then something had happened to her husband then I would feel terrible for her, although still amazed SOMEONE let her have MORE kids after having 6 to begin with (there's a difference between 1 more, and 8 more) but she as a single, unemployed woman made this choice and someone needs to step in eventually and say enough's enough.

For one, this stuff doesn't happen very often. Everyone screaming about Octomom and rushing to push legislation based on a very isolated incident is assinine. I don't think the government should be regulating a person's body. Period. And I certainly don't agree with pushing a law that will set a precedent on limiting child-bearing based on one whack-job mother.

Sure, this person has made a decision that probably none of us would make, but before we bury her in hypothetical "what-if" scenarios regarding her failure as a mother and child endangerment, lets see how she handles it, ok?

[Partha]

So you're pro-choice, then, Embar?

Always have been. I just don't discriminate against babies though. They have a choice too.

Quick, tell us what the last fetus you talked to said.

[Embar Angylwrath]

So you're pro-choice, then, Embar?

Always have been. I just don't discriminate against babies though. They have a choice too.

Quick, tell us what the last fetus you talked to said.

Its actions speak louder than its words. Tell me Partha, if you're asleep, unconscious, or otherwise unable to respond to a direct question, may we infer its ok to dismember you, suck out your brains and flush you down the toilet?

[Select]

For one, this stuff doesn't happen very often. Everyone screaming about Octomom and rushing to push legislation based on a very isolated incident is assinine. I don't think the government should be regulating a person's body. Period. And I certainly don't agree with pushing a law that will set a precedent on limiting child-bearing based on one whack-job mother.

I agree. I was ready to bitch about her choice until I started thinking and thought that if I'm pro-choice, it should be pro-choice whichever way that choice swings. Sure, I think the super isolated incidents of women using abortion as birth control are stupid and I think this woman is stupid too, but I believe it should be her right to be stupid with her body.

[Partha]

So you're pro-choice, then, Embar?

Always have been. I just don't discriminate against babies though. They have a choice too.

Quick, tell us what the last fetus you talked to said.

Its actions speak louder than its words. Tell me Partha, if you're asleep, unconscious, or otherwise unable to respond to a direct question, may we infer its ok to dismember you, suck out your brains and flush you down the toilet?

Am I hooked via tube to another organism, without which I will surely die? Can I breathe on my own?

[Embar Angylwrath]

So you're pro-choice, then, Embar?

Always have been. I just don't discriminate against babies though. They have a choice too.

Quick, tell us what the last fetus you talked to said.

Its actions speak louder than its words. Tell me Partha, if you're asleep, unconscious, or otherwise unable to respond to a direct question, may we infer its ok to dismember you, suck out your brains and flush you down the toilet?

Am I hooked via tube to another organism, without which I will surely die? Can I breathe on my own?

Sure, we can play that game. Yes, you're hooked up and can't breath on your own, but the doctors say that you're making progress every day, and they are almost 100% positive you'll get to the point where you won't need the tube, and you'll be able to breathe on your own.

[Partha]

Well, in my case, it's too late, since my family has orders that if I'm requiring the machines to live, to pull the plug. But thanks for playing, Mr. My-Opinion-Shifts-In-The-Breeze.

[Embar Angylwrath]

Well, in my case, it's too late, since my family has orders that if I'm requiring the machines to live, to pull the plug. But thanks for playing, Mr. My-Opinion-Shifts-In-The-Breeze.

I see. You exercised a choice for yourself that you would deny others. And it's typical Partha that when boxed in by his own argument, you blame the other and run away.

[Harlowe]

I think the woman has some mental health issues and that social services should be stepping in. It's really not about how many broodlings someone wants to pop out of their worn out v-jay to me, but can they take care of them?

[Ariannda Kusanagi]

I think the woman has some mental health issues and that social services should be stepping in. It's really not about how many broodlings someone wants to pop out of their worn out v-jay to me, but can they take care of them?

Thats my side views on it. It's not exactly about the fact that there;s 8 kids at once, more so about the fact there's 14 total kids. Weither she was expecting to have one child, or 4, there were also still ethical lines that were crossed, but sadly it all ties in together with the implantation, her employ ability, her marital status or lack there of (and I'm not saying single women shouldn't have kids on their own, but there's a difference between 1 and 8, or 1 and 14), i mean the whole thing is simply a mess. I don't want to tie her directly to the link between implantation restrictions, but because OF situations like this one there probably should be limitations. She didn't choose to selectively reduce, some people do, but why should someone even have to face the idea ?

*edit* Ok I admit it, I'm skewing my views on the whole thing. It's not REALLY about her employment status, or her marital status but it all ties in together in this particular case. I think there should be restrictions, not to prevent something exactly like this, but to help women, families in general. Why should ANY couple have to face the idea of 8 kids, or selective reduction ? I mean can they really win either way ? After all the point of fertility treatments is the successful birth of ONE healthy child, isn't it ?

[Harlowe]

This was kind of awesome.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxtgLzi-aK0&eurl

[Ddrak]

Sure, we can play that game. Yes, you're hooked up and can't breath on your own, but the doctors say that you're making progress every day, and they are almost 100% positive you'll get to the point where you won't need the tube, and you'll be able to breathe on your own.

And that's the crux of the argument: it's not that the baby is hooked to a *machine*, it's hooked to a real live person who also has rights, including (possibly) the right to stand up and walk away and in the process cause the death of the baby.

One side of the argument says the baby has the right to demand the mother stay connected against her will, the other side says the mother has the right to disconnect the baby against what is assumed is the baby's will.

Dd