Clan Ascension Jumps Fear raid

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devistater
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Post by devistater »

wasn't this horse already dead? who kicked it to bring it back to the first page?

get over it and move on, or go kill your self.
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Post by ZanypherCocoapuffs »

Lemme clear something up here:

I am not bagging on CA. In the case of this particular incident they didn't do anything wrong. What I find fucking stupid is that some of you idiots honestly believe that the reservations systems aren't about the epic mobs.

I'm telling you they are, and they're fucking FINE the way they are. They SHOULD have the epic mobs included, but they dont. In this case, someone came in and got the goods first and someone else felt slighted. And what I'm saying is I understand how they can feel slighted. It'd piss me off too.

What I also find funny is the history lesson on how reservations came into effect. Was it not the higher end guilds that basically formed reservation systems together, and now that its totally unimportant to them, they want FCFS?

All I have to say is that if it has nothing to do with you or your guild anymore, WTF do you care anyway? These zones are still important to me and my guild to better ourselves. If we have to use reservations to get there, then so be it. It works for us, so bug off back to the Elemental Planes or something, we're busy.
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Vumil
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Post by Vumil »

What I also find funny is the history lesson on how reservations came into effect. Was it not the higher end guilds that basically formed reservation systems together, and now that its totally unimportant to them, they want FCFS?
They started off as somewhat informal agreements between 2 guilds, then 3-6 or so guilds. They included all spawns in fear and hate, but the golems, draco and CT were much different than they are now and epics were not a factor.

Most people that had anything to do with putting this into play DO NOT EVEN PLAY ANYMORE, you're not dealing with the same people and the game has changed in huge ways over the past 4 years. Fear and Hate reservations aren't as important as they used to be, not even close.
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Post by Jadelin Iceheart »

Why is it that several of the proponents of FCFS are able to talk civilly about this and the most vocal supporters of reservations can't get by without insulting everyone that doesn't agree with them?

Might I also point out that the higher end guilds that you think are oppressing you and wanting in the planes have a minimal presence in the reservable planes, anyways? It's not like there are so many reservations they can't squeeze one in. Shit, I remember time competition, where we'd have a guild member stay on the boards just to get her post in for the planes before everyone else. Now there are usually quite a few nights that go unreserved.
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Relbeek Einre
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Post by Relbeek Einre »

I think because most of those who could defend reservations civilly in the past have now said "eh, it really no longer matters" leaving the partisans to carry the torch.
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Post by Kestri »

[/quote]What I also find funny is the history lesson on how reservations came into effect. Was it not the higher end guilds that basically formed reservation systems together, and now that its totally unimportant to them, they want FCFS? [/quote]

Quoteth Zan


Well you honestly have no clue then. Back when reservations were created it worked as a system to help people work their schedules around a raid. And it helped other guilds that wanted to try their hand at a challenge go in and do it (if you want more history on training grounds for bigger reservations ask someone about fire Giants sometime) the game has changed and many reservations were removed due to the abuse of "Hey its an epic mob we have to get all the epics we need and screw everyone else."

The planes have never been about reserving epic mobs iirc they reservation started previous to epic mobs even being there. It was about have the better armor the plane could afford. Now that armor is out of date, yes, but there has been a frim stand about not reserving epic mobs, That is why epic mob reservations died. People were more than willing to abuse the system in place to get what they wanted.

Before you ask... I wwent through this. In any raid I ran on vox with CS or as an indy (yes I did one or two) I never claimed the white scale. I wanted more of a chance for all bards to get one. After killing Gore a few times, who was not reserved I won my scale, even though I was a week or so from joining Poison Arrow and killing gore was a walk in the park for them (*cough* insert lame we always die so hush up joke here). I intended to host my own independent raid but heard that another guild was doing it and a friend thought they were working with me on the raid and agreed to both of our raid and talked me into going along. I won my scale that day. But I also saw numerous guilds taking groups of buffers to Vox and taking alts or others with them that weren't even guilded and claiming scales for people that didn't even attend their raids. That always bothered me, but it was their turn on the rotation so I never said a word.

Consistently you will see guilds not take down golems, or the golems pop after a raid is done and people go into Fear and kill the golems and possibly CT. I have seen people on failed Fear raids take their guilds in after the raid failed, helping with CR in fact, to kill golems and/or CT. Many times original raiders were allowed to stick around and they got armor and items that they never would have seen otherwise.

So before you go and start reforming a system that works as it was intended and has been rehased over and over about these same issues. You probably should realise how much you are damaging the system in your attitude towards it. Read the posts carefully above about how you are making the system look by wanting to change it and then decide if you want the system in place or do you want to lose it.
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Post by Arathena »

'It's just a harmless white dragon, how tough can it be? CHARGE!" <slash rip tear fwakoom> "RUN AWAY! RUN AWAY!"

Seriously, though, golems as a reservable mob would be FUBAR. Make them part of the current reservation system, and you destroy everything that current system was made for, as you get people camping till 20:00:01 board time to take the plane with no better than a 1/3 chance of it being up, and doing so literally every other week.

Making them a rotation, you get a 40 name long list that stays 40 names long forever and ever, since the golems seem to have about a 1 in 20 to a 1 in 50 chance of dropping the necro/SK epic pieces. I've also put down all three golems and not seen the iksar child pop. This makes many, many, many more people angry than racing someone to a spawn tends to.

Now, I'm rather fond of Kestri and Crelone, so please don't throw them to the angry rampaging thing that is epic greed.
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Post by Kestri »

<smiles at Arathena... thinks of her being fond of Crelone... then reads her autosig> Ara you are priceless, but thank you!
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Post by Crelone »

/hug Ara and Kestri.


i've really got nothing left to say on this thread except when you all get done fighting this out let me know what we are doing so I know how to continue to support the community.
~Cre
Thorondar
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Must post.

Post by Thorondar »

Hi Everyone!

I just wanted to post so when this thread becomes the basis of why to remove the remaining reservations on Brell, I can be a part of it. Therefore, it can also be said that multiple end game guilds took part in oppressing the little guy that needs reservations to block epic mobs for themsel*cough* *cough* I mean work those armor drops that they desperately need.

As credentials I submit all the nights I stayed up til 4am waiting for goddamn shissar thingy in fear to maybe spawn and run in and kill it for our needy chanters at the time and all the times we reserved fear at the expense of Vellious targets hoping that the Shissar was up in order to try to remove the whole enchanter experience of slutting themselves out to 15+ other guild raids to get a minute chance of winning their epic component.

I also submit the numerous Ragefire raids that other people jumped or cried foul when we were after Ragefire because they said they had a FG reservation, and all of our FG reservations that were jumped because others just went after Ragefire (something that Watchers weren't willing to do at first...)

Finally, because this is a rant board, I am obliged to tell each and every one of you to fuck off.

Danke,

Thorondar Fury
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Jadelin Iceheart
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Post by Jadelin Iceheart »

Well, after all that oppression, I guess it's a good thing I like wearing chains.
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Post by Relbeek Einre »

:shock:
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Post by Emetibu »

Same here and I got plenty of whips for the masses.
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Post by Relbeek Einre »

:shock: :shock: :shock:
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Post by Awea »

Thor, you're such a slut. Why can't you be more conservative like the whip bearers over there!
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Post by Ddrak »

Zany wrote:What I find fucking stupid is that some of you idiots honestly believe that the reservations systems aren't about the epic mobs.
What I find fucking stupid is someone telling the people that manage the reservation system that they are fucking stupid and wrong.
Zany wrote: I'm telling you they are, and they're fucking FINE the way they are. They SHOULD have the epic mobs included, but they dont. In this case, someone came in and got the goods first and someone else felt slighted. And what I'm saying is I understand how they can feel slighted. It'd piss me off too.
Yeah. I'd get pissed off that I couldn't use a signup board to block other people from getting the loot that I'm entitled to. Fuckers. That was MY FUCKING LOOT. WAAAAAAHHHH!!!
Zany wrote:Was it not the higher end guilds that basically formed reservation systems together, and now that its totally unimportant to them, they want FCFS?
No. It was formed when multiple guilds of similar power used to to reconcile raid scheduling. When the system gets used as a blocking mechanism rather than a scheduling mechanism then people will start demanding FCFS to prevent that blocking from happening.

Reservations/Rotations should never be public. The NToV, Emp and VT rotations all worked well because they were private and not open to anyone else's entry. If someone not on the rotation wanted in they simply have to force themselves in and effect a renegotiation.
Zany wrote:All I have to say is that if it has nothing to do with you or your guild anymore, WTF do you care anyway?
We care because historically people that are baby fed their zones through reservations tend to start demanding them at the higher level stuff. We care because we don't like seeing small guilds block larger guilds from content because they think they are entitled to it. We care because we've all been there, done that and know both sides of the argument. We care because in having this argument over and over again for the last 3 years we can all meet up with old friends and point out the misconceptions and flailing abusive language of the next batch of people demanding epic mob XXXX be reserved for their sole use at the expense of the rest of the server.

Dd
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Post by Talaena »

/rude fletop
Jadelin Iceheart
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Post by Jadelin Iceheart »

Yeah. I'd get pissed off that I couldn't use a signup board to block other people from getting the loot that I'm entitled to. Fuckers. That was MY FUCKING LOOT. WAAAAAAHHHH!!!
This line made me giggle like a school girl.
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Post by Talaena »

Titmouse
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Post by ZanypherCocoapuffs »

Fuck I give up. Get rid of the reservations systems period. I dont want to deal with it anymore.

Seems to be that everybodys convinced that reservations = bad and that those who have reservations shouldn't expect to have shots at epic mobs because lord knows if they use the reservation systems to get at epic mobs in the planes then they're just all evil fucking abusers and it will end the whole goddamn world as we know it.

Seems to be that since I'm the one who's the proponent for reservation systems then I'm the one whining about being oppressed, even though I've never said any god damn thing about uber guilds enforcing their will on others and never said that Watchers, SR, Ensh will just go and own each of the reserved planes because they can. But hey, I'm the one whining about being oppressed because I'm being realistic about other people going in there and just hogging everything, either with a guild tag or without one.

Seems to be that the ubah's are only concerned about their own shit, as the last paragraph of Ddrak's last post clearly shows, they're only concerned about the rest of us coming up to Vex Thal and hogging all their damn fun. :roll:

Seems to be that the only people who matter here are the ones moderating it. So undo the fucking thing and shut the fuck up. Leave the rest of us who have to deal with it alone and go run off to the Elemental Planes or something.

I vote get rid of 'em, everybody but me will be happy and thats all ok right? Right. Cya.
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