Eye For An eye - Iranian acid attack punishment

[Alluveal]

The article is 5 pages long, so I won't post it here.

Essentially, an Iranian woman had a bucket of sulphuric acid dumped over her head when she declined a man's marriage proposal. She has been able to persuade the Iranian court system to punish him by putting 5 drops of the same acid in his eyes.

This punishment has not been carried out yet.

What do you think?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... id=topnews

[Select]

If it happens to him, and I hope it does, more power to her. Yea, the ideal is it shouldn't happen at all to anyone, but I don't see that progress being made, especially considering that his punishment is not equal to what he did to her. Things like that happen all the time to women in India, too. :\ I think it was only recently that a woman won the first sexual harassment case in India and she had to drag the guy and drive him in her own car to two police stations to make it happen.

Some officials also said the punishment would be a deterrent.

"If propaganda is carried out on how acid attackers are punished, it will prevent such crimes in the future,

I also agree with this.

Ahmadinejad's media adviser, Medhi Kalhor, said he could guess why the payments were cut off. "Did Mr. Khatami throw the acid? No. He shouldn't have paid for her out of the people's pocket," he said. "If Bahrami was an old man with an ingrown toenail, no one would speak of it. . . . There are so many people who need our help. We cannot just pay for everybody."

Such a stupid statement. An ingrown toenail is not the result of an attack because the government failed to protect one of its citizens who are part of a group that face inequality and violence regularly.

And what do you think, Allu?

[Alluveal]

I think the punishment hardly fits the crime, but I'm not sure I'm an "eye for an eye" kind of gal. I will say that I don't feel bad for the dude, but some of my friends are taking the high ground. I get the concept that "cruel and unusual punishment" is abhorrent, but I guess until I see a little more balance in cultures such as this (and I know that Iran has far less of these incidents than other societies,) I'm not able to be repulsed by his punishment. My reaction to what he did to her far outweighs any empathy I feel toward him at this point.

[Freecare Spiritwise]

I'm against the punishment just out of general principal. I was always taught that two wrongs don't make a right. But given that there's not much justice for women to begin with in countries like Iran, if the victim wants to burn this fucker's eyes out I've got no moral problem with it. So it wouldn't be my personal first choice of punishment but I don't have any sympathy for the accused.

The wife's exact words: "That country is so fucked up that all the women should just leave and we'll see how well their society functions with no women in it."

My first thought was that it would be impossible, but would it be? Some sort of Ghandi-style passive resistance could actually work.

[Tarfang_Trubasher]

I would've sought a different type of repayment than his eyesight.

It goes along with the "eye for an eye" theory. By removing her eyesight, he made her incapable of providing for herself. Thus, his penance must be providing for her for the duration of her life. Of course, Islamic code is much more literal in the "eye for an eye."

Along with Freecare's sentiment -- a women in Iran getting ANY type of "justice" is something.

-TF

[Select]

I thought "an eye for an eye" was always supposed to be taken as literal which is why it's frowned upon because "two wrongs don't make a right". Wasn't Hammurabi the first to write down "an eye for an eye"?

194
If a man give his child to a nurse and the child die in her hands, but the nurse unbeknown to the father and mother nurse another child, then they shall convict her of having nursed another child without the knowledge of the father and mother and her breasts shall be cut off.
195
If a son strike his father, his hands shall be hewn off.
196
If a man put out the eye of another man, his eye shall be put out. [ An eye for an eye ]
200
If a man knock out the teeth of his equal, his teeth shall be knocked out. [ A tooth for a tooth ]
202
If any one strike the body of a man higher in rank than he, he shall receive sixty blows with an ox-whip in public.
209
If a man strike a free-born woman so that she lose her unborn child, he shall pay ten shekels for her loss.
210
If the woman die, his daughter shall be put to death.

It still favors the man, but I think that's pretty literal.

[Ddrak]

Yes, it's part of the code of Hammurabi. The interesting thing is Jesus specifically said that "an eye for an eye" was the wrong thing to do (Matt 5:38), and I happen to agree with him.

It's not a good formal system of justice.

Dd

[Select]

It isn't a good system, but maybe the men there will suddenly say, "Oh! we must do something for these poor women!" when they're feeling the acid too.
For me, I don't follow Jesus, but go with my gut feelings. Sometimes they correspond, sometimes they don't

[Ddrak]

It isn't a good system, but maybe the men there will suddenly say, "Oh! we must do something for these poor women!" when they're feeling the acid too.

Doesn't work that way. The ones it would think like that aren't the ones that would be dumping acid on the woman in the first place. The ones dumping acid would simply say the trial was bullshit and that the guy would have been better to kill her.

I think she would have been better off pushing for a god-awful amount of blood money. It still punishes the guy who did it and doesn't reek of revenge taking place of justice.

Dd

[Klast Brell]

It represents cultural change. They are severely punishing a man for severely hurting a woman. In the past they would have given a lighter punishment. This shows that the Iranian courts are begining to see crimes against women and med as being equally bad. Maybe in the future they will also turn away from punishments that are so horrifying. That will be good as well. But for now I'm happy to see that kind of sentencing parity. Maybe next they will start treating honor killings as murder. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honor_killing

[Arathena]

It represents cultural change. They are severely punishing a man for severely hurting a woman. In the past they would have given a lighter punishment. This shows that the Iranian courts are begining to see crimes against women and med as being equally bad. Maybe in the future they will also turn away from punishments that are so horrifying. That will be good as well. But for now I'm happy to see that kind of sentencing parity. Maybe next they will start treating honor killings as murder. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honor_killing

I wish I had enough hope to agree. However, I cannot see this as anything but some vengance that will lead this woman to a painful death at the hands of this man's relatives.

[Select]

Doesn't work that way. The ones it would think like that aren't the ones that would be dumping acid on the woman in the first place. The ones dumping acid would simply say the trial was bullshit and that the guy would have been better to kill her.

Hah, no shit. I don't ever see the people who would dump acid on a woman in the first place as ever having the ability to recognize what they did.
This is for the men who would never and who have the potential to make changes. Women there do not have much power to make changes.

It represents cultural change. They are severely punishing a man for severely hurting a woman. In the past they would have given a lighter punishment. This shows that the Iranian courts are begining to see crimes against women and med as being equally bad.

I'm sure the majority of people there will lag behind in understanding this. The courts started it though, and that is a huge cultural step.

I personally feel that in some cases, justice needs revenge. Sometimes justice alone is revenge.

[Garrdor]

I love those videos on ogrish and strangeland of 'islamic justice'.

My favorite is this guy who was getting executed for questioning the existence of god during a discussion with his teacher. It shows all his classmates hog-tieing him and taking him to the 2nd story of this building. They dangle him over the ledge, let him look straight down to see what's coming. One of the guys actually spits on his face before they throw him down. He survives the fall... his face is all smashed up though. They drag him up a flight of stairs and do it again. They gang-stomp his body afterwards. It shows a cop/security guy showing up and laughing at the whole ordeal.

My second favorite is this group of afghani women who were caught 'sharing a book' in public - getting buried up to their necks in this big soccer stadium. This guy who looks kinda like santa claus runs up out of the audience and starts throwing rocks at their heads. Then... like a scene from Caligula, they get this big bulldozer with the scoop on the front. They literally scoop their heads off, or crush them. I coulden't see it very well.

God bless the human race.

[Embar Angylwrath]

Select..

Given your stance on this topic, I'm assuming you would advocate for the removing of Lorena Bobbit's clitoris (with a needle nose pliers) for what she did to her husband. Google it.

[Select]

Embar, you're really bad at reading people and understanding their point of view. I think you post for knee-jerk reactions half the time

I know about this case (who the hell doesn't?!) and my answer to your question is a solid "no".

1) It took place in this country which I think has a better justice system and extreme measures aren't necessary today to get a group recognized as equals deserving of justice.
2) Had it happened in Iran, it happened to a male, not a female. The male would win a case hands down and the woman would probably face worse than "an eye for an eye".
3) She was found not-guilty.
4) She was found not-guilty due to temporary insanity because of the abuse he put her through. If anything, she was committing revenge close to "eye for eye". What you're suggesting is "an eye for an eye for an eye."
5) I don't think an "eye for an eye" has a place in this country (see 1), but I do think there are certain situations where revenge would give closure to the victim. My opinion doesn't fit with the justice system here

"In 1994, he was convicted of misdemeanor domestic battery against his former fiancée, Kristina Elliott, and sentenced to 15 days in jail" That boy should have lost his dick. I don't think he learned the first time to stop driving women over the edge.

I'll add that if I were crazy enough to agree with your question, they would need to be able to reattach her clit for this to be "an eye for an eye". :lol"

[Embar Angylwrath]

Why does your advocacy of a certain type of punishment have to do with the status of the criminal justice system in a country. Seems to be the honest response (if you're being honest) is to say that guy doesn't deserve that type of punishment, but rather deserves time in jail.

I think you have some man-hating issues, I really do.

[Ddrak]

She's just making the classic "ends justify the means" argument. It's ok to maim and mutilate someone if it serves a greater good.

I fundamentally disagree with that.

Dd

[Select]

I think you have some man-hating issues, I really do.

Hahaha, I thought you were trying to go there. I'm against punishing a woman as much as any man for sexually assaulting an innocent. I do not have man-hating issues. I hate that there is so much violence against women in this world and women have a hard time obtaining equal status to combat it.

But, if you want to pretend I hate men, Embar, hand me your dick and I'll chop it off so we can keep playing your little labeling game. You'll want all the proof you can get that I man-hate, amirite?

Oh, you got your knee-jerk reaction.

Dd gets it.

[Harlowe]

The whole thing is barbaric, I'm not sure I can really get behind the concept of "equal barbarism". I am definitely not for "an eye for an eye" system of judgment, though I do believe the punishment should fit the crime. I just feel there are better ways of punishing than by some sort of old-time, barbaric retribution. It's like living in the dark ages.

I'm glad there is an effort to take crimes against women more serious, but really this isn't a sign of that culture moving in the right direction.

[Garrdor]

Select is the prez of the she-girl man-haters club.