Reason 142 to Homeschool your kids...

[Arathena]

That's absolutely the larger issue, but don't knock gaining social skills - they matter in the real world, especially the working one. Home schooled young adults are some of the oddest ducks I've ever met. Of course, more often then not they are seriously religious. Nutters even.

The phenomena are interrelated, by the philosophy that the nutters like to call 'Raising Godly Tomatos'. Essentially, the theory goes that children, teenagers, and young adults have minds too mallable to be allowed to make decisions for themselves - they will inevitably break the will of God. Therefore, the parent can and should be empowered to do all thinking for their offspring, until the offspring is too set in the track that the parent has determined for it to wander off and think for himself. Fear of 'outsiders' is deliberately inculculated to keep them from seeking out things outside what Mommy and Daddy want them to think. They're not supposed to interact with you, why should they need to know how?

[Freecare Spiritwise]

My children do very well socially and academically, and as a parent I believe the goal is to give your kids the tools to make their own decisions, and if I do my job they will be good people, not because I forced them to be good people but because they decide that for themselves. As Ross Perot once said, a good deal sells itself.

A recent talk with my 13 year old son who's trying to come to terms with what he thinks his spiritual beliefs are, and lots of people telling him lots of things (including some friend's parents who consider me a Godless heathen):

"These are my religious beliefs, this is my philosophy on life, and this is why I think the way I do. Someday soon you're going to be grown man. As your father, I can tell you to clean your room, but I can't tell you who you are, or what your beliefs are. Lots of people in your life are going to push their beliefs on you, but you have to decide on your own. I will love you and respect your beliefs no matter what they are, even if they differ from my own."

[Ariannda Kusanagi]

"These are my religious beliefs, this is my philosophy on life, and this is why I think the way I do. Someday soon you're going to be grown man. As your father, I can tell you to clean your room, but I can't tell you who you are, or what your beliefs are. Lots of people in your life are going to push their beliefs on you, but you have to decide on your own. I will love you and respect your beliefs no matter what they are, even if they differ from my own."

I have said the same thing to my children, and I try to tell them that now they're children, so they have to clean their room, but they need to know HOW to do it, and do it in an acceptable manner so that when I'm not around to tell them what to do, they still know HOW even if they choose not to.

As far as religion goes I feel I should introduce my children to some beliefs even if they vastly differ from those of their family so they have the ability to see multiple facets of ideas and come to their own conclusions.

[wende darling]

It's funny all the misconceptions people who have never been involved in the homeschooling community have about homeschooled children. I homeschooled my kids for years. I am neither a religious zealot nor an idiot pushing my agenda onto my children. I am, however, a mother who has the time to get to know each of the children that are under my care. I have the time and the ability to teach each child in a manner that suits their individual learning needs best. My 13 year old, who struggled in school prior to my homeschooling being labeled learning disabled, is now thriving in school. She got to spend her gradeschool years at home learning what she wanted to learn and in a way that made sense to her. This girl didn't learn to read until she was almost 7 years old. She hated reading and was frustrated by the process. After being home and having a more relaxed approach to reading she learned to love it. I often find her reading at 1am and then I have to shake her out of bed for school in the morning. If her grades keep the pace that they are right now she will be an honor roll student. The child who everyone said would never make it in academics is doing very well because she took a few years "off" and was able to get herself into a groove that makes sense to her. She still struggles with some things but we've figured out a way to help her learn. The entire time she was homeschooled she was involved in sports. She had a ton of friends who judged her based on who she was rather than where her parents lived and the clothes that she wore. As a result, her friends are from all different spectrums. She's had a difficult time socially with certain aspects since going back to school that she never would have had if she were still homeschooling, certain experiences that she could have lived without but that people tend to push aside saying "13 year old girls are mean. What can you do?" and the other parents ignore it. But, she's strong. She has great self esteem and has learned to deal with that BS also. She's far from being socially inept and uneducated.

My 10 year old is a different story. I kick myself on a regular basis for allowing him to go back to school but I always said that I would homeschool for as long as they wanted me to and he wanted to go back to school. He says that he loves school but he struggles. Since going back to school he's been labeled ADHD without a diagnosis. His teachers tend to give up trying so they let him slide by. He's socially awkward, AKA a "geek". He talks. A lot. He can't sit still and he doesn't focus on anything for more than a few minutes. He's possibly dyslexic. If he were at home we could work on these things but at school the teachers just don't have the time. Kids like him are given busy work. As a homeschooled boy he fit right in with the other dorky homeschooled boys. Not that they all were, but there seems to be a trend of parents pulling their kids from school who are tormented for being different. The interesting thing though, is that I volunteer at the school. I also go on field trips when I can. And, as much as my son gets teased by the social elite, he's also highly embraced by all the other kids. He's like a superhero to the "average-different" kids. They adore him. He isn't struggling academically or socially as a result of homeschooling. He's struggling in those areas as a result of being who he is. He's also thriving more than many kids in his same situation and I think that's based on the fact that I know him as well as I do and am able to help him in ways that many parents aren't able to. Most parents have not spent as much time with their children as I have simply because the kids are in school all day long. They have no more clue how to deal with their children than the teachers because they only get a few hours a day to spend with them.

I questioned regularly whether or not I was doing the right thing by my kids. After sending them back to school I am certain that I did. Those extra years at home were valuable to them. Homeschooling is certainly not for everyone. Not all kids "need" to be homeschooled and not all parents should homeschool. But not all kids should be in public school and not all teachers should be teaching either.

Maybe my experience is clouded by the area that I live in but there was never a weekend when we didn't have plans with other kids. There were frequent sleepovers, parties, activities, etc. We went roller skating every week with other homeschoolers. Twice a month we played lazertag. Every week during the warm months we were at the park. There were art groups and game groups and book clubs. In that individual friendships emerged resulting in even more time spent with other kids. Kids of various ages, races, religious and economic backgrounds. We knew families who lived on huge acres of land and who were building their own home out of...I can't remember, I want to say straw and mud...and who lived almost soley on the food that they grew and celebrated samhain and solstice and who found education in every single thing that they did. We knew other families who woke up and started every single day with bible study and refused to believe in evolution and kept a rigid 8am-3pm school session. We knew other families who were very much like our own, the occasional McDonalds trip, the occasional days off just because, everyone with their own political and religious beliefs. The most extreme thing being that the kids didn't go to public school like the rest of the world.

There are certainly downfalls in the homeschooling community but so few of them are the things that people often claim when arguing against homeschooling. There are far more inconsistencies and negatives in the public school system as it is now.

[Harlowe]

There are always success stories in any situation. Homeschooling isn't a virtual Utopian existence any more than public schools are filled with only evil mean children.

Perception of homeschooling or public schools is based on a person's experience with it. It's all anecdotal. Just because you've done it and had a positive experience because you did a good job, doesn't mean that there are not parents that suck at it. Just because you had a negative experience with a public school, does not mean there are not successful ones.

[wende darling]

True, there are always success stories but to be honest I saw more "success stories" than failures. I don't even want to call them success stories because nobody was doing anything crazy. There are a few stories of homeschooled children making it to Ivy League colleges but those are only highlighted because the number of homeschooled kids is overshadowed by the numbers of traditionally schooled children. Most homeschooled kids will end up just like every other kid. They'll go to college or they won't. Some will make it to an Ivy League school, others will go to a state or junior college. Some will end up in prison while others will lead highly successful lives. It's not like we're pulling children from poverty riddled, drug infested situations and bringing them to brilliance. That's a success story.

But that was my point the whole time. People tend to quote the bad without seeing the much higher percentage of good that comes of it. They take "facts" that they read but are never directly involved so they never really know the true nature of it.

Obviously not all public schooled kids are horrible, rotten monsters but it is certainly easier to draw the few out when they're in a large crowd full of cheering spectators. Kids rarely bully when their parents are looking on and the things that could become troublesome are often nipped in the bud before they occur when parents are involved in the child's life. The fact of the matter is kids spend 8 hours a night sleeping and another 8 at school in a classroom where they have to fit the mold of the other 30 kids in class. That leaves 8 waking hours at home and I can't for the life of me find those 8 hours because after school becomes a blur of homework, after 8 hours of school grade school kids apparently need a few more hours of homework, chores, sports, meals...and very little sit down family time. AND, I'm a stay at home mom. A single parent or a two income family would have far fewer hours than I do.

I can see the spectrum because I've lived it. I've seen a few families who I thought, "they should not be homeschooling their kids" but I've also had friends who I thought should homeschool but who sent their kids to public school. My kids are all, except for my 3 year old, in school. They are doing well and having fun. I don't knock the public school system. I think it has it's place and I'm glad that it's there and that my kids are able to get the most out of it. On the flip side, I loved homeschooling and would do it again if they asked. What I dislike is people automatically judging homeschooling and the children who are homeschooled based on some newspaper articles. They are so inaccurate most of the time it's not even funny.

[Klast Brell]

There is a home schooled kid in my class. It's his first time in a classroom with strangers. He's mostly shy and quiet. But every time he opens his mouth you would think he was from mars. it's like a aspergers kid who is doing his best impression of a normal person.

[Harlowe]

Klast that description fits most of the young adults I know that have been home-schooled. To be fair, I don't know about children now, maybe there are more educated and well-rounded parents doing it in this day and age, but seriously, the young adults that I've met or know that were home-schooled fit that description. Really odd ducks.

[wende darling]

Klast that description fits most of the young adults I know that have been home-schooled. To be fair, I don't know about children now, maybe there are more educated and well-rounded parents doing it in this day and age, but seriously, the young adults that I've met or know that were home-schooled fit that description. Really odd ducks.

I think that's fair, however, I don't think that is a RESULT of homeschooling. I think that is a result of the family that they were brought up with (so they'd have turned out that way regardless) and possibly a REASON they were homeschooled. I know quite a few families who began homeschooling, and only homeschooled one of their children, because he/she was an "odd duck" who just didn't fit in to traditional school. Instead of letting that child spend 12 years being tormented and humiliated they taught them at home.

I also think that more mainstream parents now days are choosing to homeschool their children as it becomes more widely accepted and easier to do even for 2 income families. It is a valid and useful alternative to public schooling for parents who may not have the money for private schools.

[wende darling]

Oh and...

How many batshit crazy, odd ducks have you met who were public schooled? I know that I've met more than my fair share. If you meet someone who is kookie and he was homeschooled people automatically assume that it was a result of his schooling. If you meet someone one who is kookie and he was public schooled people will assume many other reasons for it.

The problem is that if you meet 100 people and 1 of them was homeschooled and that person is odd than 100% of the homeschooled people you know are odd. You could have an equal amount of odd public schoolers in the bunch but the percentages wouldn't add up because most of the people that you meet won't have been homeschooled.

[Ariannda Kusanagi]

Were any of us homeschooled ?

I was for a few months while we traveled the country but it lasted less then a year, other then that I knew some really odd people in high school....

[Harlowe]

I'm not talking about random people, if most of the people I met that went to public school were odd ducks and socially awkward, I would think it had something to do with public schools. But when all the home schooled people I've met are, you are going to relate it to probably being schooled in an isolated environment with loony, extremely religious parents. Because the ones that I've met (with one exception) have been raised in very religious, conservative households.

I'm not basing this on one or two people out of hundreds.

Now these are people home-schooled - what like 15-20 years ago, when I believe the majority of parents home schooling, weren't the enlightened, intelligent, natural teachers and caring guardians that we would find now (which you honestly sound like an example of). I think they are more often then not, the fringe, religious loons that are just control freaks about their children. That's just what I see in these young adults that are products of that sort of oppressive, "keep them locked up and unexposed until they are adults" attitude.

This is why there is a stigma to "home schooled" kids. Not because it's a misconception, but because THOSE are the people that generally home schooled their kids and how their sheltered, unequipped children turned out.

[Freecare Spiritwise]

That's been my experience as well, Harlowe, and I've also seen it first hand. My dad in his early 40's found religion and a woman half his age. So I have 2 brothers and 2 sisters, all adults now, and all were home-schooled in a highly religious environment. To say that they're socially awkward is an understatement - they're not socially functional as adults.

[Ddrak]

Since going back to school he's been labeled ADHD without a diagnosis. His teachers tend to give up trying so they let him slide by. He's socially awkward, AKA a "geek". He talks. A lot. He can't sit still and he doesn't focus on anything for more than a few minutes. He's possibly dyslexic.

Sounds like mild Asperger's, which is probably more of an advantage than a disadvantage if handled correctly.

Honestly, I don't know anyone in Australia that is home schooled. I was barely even aware it was an option until I looked and basically the parents have to follow the same curriculum as the schools do (which makes good sense, despite my reservations about the curriculum in general) so most of them figure it's too much work and don't bother.

Dd

[Klast Brell]

I'm not trying to say they are mentally ill. Far from it. How do i put this in to words. This will be clumsy so don't jump down my throat I believe that they are socially illiterate. Not completely. But in some ways they have the social skills of a third grader. Like the writing and math skills of someone who dropped out of school in third grade. I don't mean that they act like 8 year olds. They are adults in maturity level. But the complex dance of social interactions between strangers is foreign to them. How close or far do you stand to them when you are having a conversation? Which way do you face in an elevator? What kind of polite conversation do you engage in in different circumstances?
It's like an American going to japan and not being familiar with the different social rules. Walking in to someone's house and not taking off their shoes. Or going to china and writing someone a note with a red ballpoint pen.

Now Ddrak brought up aspergers in relation to ADD. In some mental health researchers are beginning to believe that ADD is just part of the Autism spectrum. http://theemergencesite.com/Tech/TechIs ... rs-ADD.htm

[Harlowe]

I don't think any of us are saying "mentally ill", not at all, just ....socially odd ducks. I agree 100% it's all about being socially illiterate.

Going back to the bad people in public schools - we all need to learn how to deal with that. We need to learn how to deal with all sorts of people from very nice to the bullies. We need to learn how to deal with people that aren't trying to boost our self-esteem. There are social expectations on all levels and the sooner we learn, the better we can adapt to those situations and also understand how to interact with a variety of peers in different situations.

I think the shock of suddenly having to deal with adversity or "meanness" after years of being sheltered from it, would be much more destructive than learning to deal with it and diffuse it early on.

[wende darling]

Seriously? You really believe that homeschooled children don't have any social interactions at all? They never leave their homes? I suppose if one was kept in solitude his entire life he'd automatically be socially stunted but, and again, this is based on the experience of the children in my area, every single homeschooled child that I have ever met has had just as much, if not more, social interaction than the public schooled children. The experience is different, sure, but they aren't kept away from people. They learn how to shop, stand in an elevator, shake hands with a stranger, talk to people. Most of them are more socially appropriate than I am.

[Harlowe]

We're still talking about young adults & adults right now, so homeschooled kids from 20 years ago and yes, I do believe they were very much sheltered more often than not and why there is a stigma regarding homeschooled kids in general now.

I don't think they have the same degree of interaction at all, especially not those homeschooled a generation ago.

What you described was "politeness" and basic living skills not really socially interracting with a variety of peers in mixed settings.

[Select]

Or going to china and writing someone a note with a red ballpoint pen.

I didn't know that one. What's that about?

[Arathena]

Or going to china and writing someone a note with a red ballpoint pen.

I didn't know that one. What's that about?

Writing names in red in China is reserved for lists of the dead, apparently.