Suppress the vote

[Harlowe]

So again, please point out some actual modern day voter fraud that justifies the GOP tactics. The GOP is claiming that current fraud is rampant when the exact opposite is true.

He can't. Because legal scholars have published numerous papers on it being a myth. It's all about voter suppression and has zero to do with voter fraud.

[Kulaf]

It's not just vote fraud......it's also fraudulent registrations. Once a vote is cast it's kind of late to try to convince people that it shouldn't count......or that the election results should be overturned. Its much easier to try to correct the issue before the election. Just look at ACORN and it's history of fraudulent registrations in WI, WA, etc.

This was just from yesterday:

http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/10/07 ... stigation/

[Klast Brell]

This profiling consistently disenfranchises thousands of legal voters. In each sweet thousands of legal voters have to take extra steps to preserve their constitutionally granted right to vote. It takes real time and real money to obtain notarized proof that you live where you live. That's a poll tax.

Imagine yourself in the exact same situation. You receive a letter saying that you are accused of voter fraud because your registration did not match the address in a junk mailer's database obtained by the Democratic party. You read the newspaper and discover that the only areas targeted by the Democratic party were the most Republican areas in the state. Your letter says you have to assemble proof that you really live at the same address where the letter arrived.And that proof has to bee good enough to satisfy the Democratic party. That you then have to spend your hard earned cash to get that proof notarized. The Democratic party did this to you and to all your likely republican neighbors in your predominantly republican neighborhood. Can you honestly tell me that you would feel exactly the same way about it as you do when you hear that the Republicans are doing this to Democratic enclaves?

Then perhaps on a case by case basis the challengers should be required to prove that an individual registration is invalid. They are using profiling to round up everyone who fits a certain pattern and taking away their vote. In America you are innocent until proven guilty.

[Lurker]

It's not just vote fraud......it's also fraudulent registrations.

No so fast. Before you say "it's not just vote fraud" you need to show that there is vote fraud. Show recent vote fraud that justifies the vote supression tactics used by the GOP.

[Harlowe]

We're talking about Voter Fraud, not voter registration fraud. Registration fraud is not going to effect an election outcome. If there is no vote cast, it's benign with regard to who is in office.

There are very, VERY few cases of actual Voter Fraud in recent history.

It's an excuse to suppress votes. There is no other reason for it.

[Fallakin Kuvari]

All of the Register and Vote same day ballots went into a pile to verify their registration here in Ohio, they weren't verified at that time. They remain segregated from people who had been registered and voted early so that they can be verified.

Besides, I don't understand why observers are barred from the premises... if there's nothing to hide why bar them from the process? Seems a little fishy to me... (I will agree that the Ohio GOP's move to un-segregate the newly registered voters ballots wasn't something they should've done).

http://blog.dispatch.com/politics/2008/ ... r_fi.shtml
http://www.clelaw.lib.oh.us/public/DECI ... 00108.html

[Klast Brell]

Interesting read on the ACORN raid in Las Vegas. Acorn was hiring temps to gather registrations. The temps had to meet a 20 registration per shift quotas to keep their job. Some of the temps were not making quota and independently chose to fill in forms with made up addresses or addresses copied from the phone book. ACORN would pull random forms from the ones the temp turned in and call the phone numbers to verify the registration. ACORN also entered all registration in to a database to check for duplicates. If ACORN detected that a forms being turned in were fraudulent the temp was fired.
http://media.lasvegassun.com/media/pdfs ... rn1007.pdf
Once again. Yes it is fraud to submit a false registration. But no one was going to show up at the poll based on that fake registration. Based on the fake registrations had been submitted the ACORN offices were raided. Everything ACORN used in order to do their registration drive was seized including employee records. They had nothing left with which to gather legitimate registrations. They didn't even have the stuff needed to pay their employees.

Net result.
All legitimate registrations gathered by this "liberal group" are seized and not added to the rolls.
People who had in good faith accurately filled out registrations will show up at the polls only to discover that they are not permitted to vote.
The "liberal group' is prevented from obtaining any further legitimate registrations.
The republicans laugh their asses off because they just canceled thousands of legitimate potential democratic votes.

And not a single fake vote would have been cast no matter how many fake registrations were submitted. But now legal votes will be prevented.

[Fallakin Kuvari]

http://www.nypost.com/seven/10092008/ne ... 132771.htm

[Kulaf]

As long as groups like ACORN are trying to stuff the rolls with questionable registrations making the likelyhood of fraud greater......there is going to be efforts from the other side to trim the rolls of questionable registrations.

[Lurker]

As long as groups like ACORN are trying to stuff the rolls with questionable registrations

You just proved that you don't understand the ACORN situation at all.

[Fallakin Kuvari]

As long as groups like ACORN are trying to stuff the rolls with questionable registrations

You just proved that you don't understand the ACORN situation at all.

You just proved you didn't read the link I posted at all.

[Lurker]

I already knew about the raid before you posted your link. I read it anyways. I also read the reposting Kulaf did a day later.

It's clear that neither of you understand what ACORN is being accused of if you think there's any fraud involved that could effect an election, or if you think ACORN is deliberately trying to stuff the rolls. The only fraud here is being committed against ACORN, not by the organization. ACORN pays workers to get registrations, often with quotas, and those workers sometimes submit fake registrations to meet their quota and justify their pay. That's the extent of this.

[Fallakin Kuvari]

My link had nothing to do with the raid, had everything to do with them stuffing their rolls... thanks for playing.

[Lurker]

My link had nothing to do with the raid, had everything to do with them stuffing their rolls... thanks for playing.

Here's the link and your comment...

ACORN raided this morning.

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id ... _article=1

Were you talking about some other link?

[Harlowe]

ACORN pays workers to get registrations, often with quotas, and those workers sometimes submit fake registrations to meet their quota and justify their pay. That's the extent of this.

Stuffing the rolls? Seriously doubt it. The people were trying to get paid and fudged their way to a paycheck. Too bad for the legitimate people that might not be able to vote now - I'm not sure about Indiana's rules, some states let you register the same day.

[Fallakin Kuvari]

Thats from yesterday, retard.

Look up on this page and find the one I'm referring to, thanks.

[Lurker]

Thats from yesterday, retard.

Look up on this page and find the one I'm referring to, thanks.

Ah, I see. That doesn't contradict the facts I laid out. You and Kulaf clearly don't understand who's committing the fraud or what the point of the fraud is. And as the dumbest person still posting on these boards with any regularity, you might want to stop calling other people retards.

[Fallakin Kuvari]

http://www.nypost.com/seven/10092008/ne ... 132771.htm

Read this link. Try and comprehend it. Now I know that'll hurt your pea-sized monkey brain, but you can at least try.

[Lurker]

As I said, you don't understand who's committing the fraud or what the point of the fraud is.

The fraud is not being done by the ACORN organization and the point isn't to stuff voter rolls. The fraud is done by workers trying to justify a paycheck, and the point is to get money from ACORN.

[Harlowe]

Yeah, Lurker is just such an idiot. A raging buffoon

http://marcambinder.theatlantic.com/arc ... troops.php

Critics of ACORN wonder: why are fraudulent applications submitted in the first place? It's the system; you pay people to turn in as many voter registration cards as possible, you invite people who want more money to submit false forms. Critics also wonder: why aren't more people -- read the media -- covering this? After all, incidences of fraud are rampant, with official investigations launched in 12 states. Now -- "rampant" might not be the best adjective. Voter registration cards aren't the property of ACORN or any other group, and ACORN is required by law to turn in every completed form -- even if they're obviously fraudulent. ACORN insists it has procedures in place to flag these forms, but you can't blame supervisors of elections from throwing up their hands when they come in.

Again, fraudulent registrations do not equal votes.

I'd say ACORN is responsible for it's workers though and if their policies are so shittastic this is an issue, then they are equally to blame for the issue. They have created a situation where workers are able to fake registrations in order to fulfill their quotas. They created the environment and their policy of quotas-for-pay is part of the problem.

I don't believe for a moment this is an attempt by those faking those registrations to skew an election. They know full well these faux people aren't going to be voting.