FUCK YOU EA!!!

[Minute]

After all the fucking years I've been buying Madden for the PC religiously, pre-order, extra packages, the works, these motherfuckers aren't releasing it on PC??? That's just fucking wonderful. Now that they have bought out ALL the contenders we have no fucking sports games on the PC at all. How many years in a row has Madden been the #1 seller? Why the fuck would they not put it out on PC? You can't possibly convince me that there isn't money to be made by porting it to the PC. Crazy thing is that I upgrade my video card every year strictly for this game to insure I can run it full blown without a hitch. Guess now I'll just have to dump that money into a fucking Xbox360. Still, I hate you EA. I hate you for not giving me Fight Night on PC, and I hate you for this more than anything. Die, Die, Die!

[Ddrak]

Sadly, this isn't uncommon.

[Ddrak]

I should clarify:

It's not uncommon for companies these days to release first on consoles then release later on PC - take things like Mass Effect and Assassin's Creed as an example. I suspect this is going to become more of the norm in the future, not so much because there's no market for PC games but more because the PC is a much richer gaming platform than consoles are and probably more expensive to develop for than a fixed console target.

I don't believe that PC gaming is going to suffer any sort of death, but I do think the landscape will change a little with more of the junk only going to consoles with only the best stuff coming to PC, probably a little later and revised to take advantage of the improved graphics, CPU power and input devices PCs offer.

Dd

[Klast Brell]

Console development costs are cheaper. You don't have to program for 300 different possible configurations.
Console games are not pirated as often. Makes the publisher feel like they are maximizing profit.

[Ddrak]

Console development costs are cheaper. You don't have to program for 300 different possible configurations.

I'd disagree with that. It sounds like it would be true, but with engines available now that cover all that stuff over the target is really the game engine and not the raw platform. With the PC being a much more powerful machine (in CPU and GPU power), you really do get a much more forgiving environment, not to mention it's easier to debug and you don't have to shell out $10-$20 per item sold to the console maker just for the privilege of helping to sell their console.

The only time the "300 different configs" really comes into play is the number of weird things PC users do to their machines that fucks them up for game playing and so ends in a tech support call which ends up in "reinstall Windows and it'll get better".

The real reason (as far as I can tell) is the console market is perceived as larger and an easier target to market to. Given the number of MMO subs out there, I'd have to question that logic a little. I don't know of *any* console game that can even come close to touching WoW's profits, and they probably don't touch Lineage, EQ or a host of others either.

Console games are not pirated as often. Makes the publisher feel like they are maximizing profit.

lol - worded beautifully.

Dd

[Bahd Zoolander]

Compatibility testing on the PC is much more expensive than testing a few console configurations. Support costs are higher too since you have to deal with Joe Spyware and his mess of a configuration that makes the game run slow. You also have to deal with XP, Vista, shader 2/3, varying amounts of video ram and system ram, etc.

For the 360 at least I'd say debugging is actually easier than the PC. The debugging tools, like PIX, are also better.

[Taxious]

You also have to deal with XP, Vista, shader 2/3, varying amounts of video ram and system ram, etc.

I'm pretty sure DirectX does a lot of this work for you.

[Ddrak]

Compatibility testing on the PC is much more expensive than testing a few console configurations. Support costs are higher too since you have to deal with Joe Spyware and his mess of a configuration that makes the game run slow. You also have to deal with XP, Vista, shader 2/3, varying amounts of video ram and system ram, etc.

For the 360 at least I'd say debugging is actually easier than the PC. The debugging tools, like PIX, are also better.

Point taken on testing.

I'm kinda surprised that the debugging tools are better on 360 than PC though, but for areas like PIX covers I guess it makes sense - it's easier to develop a shader debug tool when you don't have a few dozen targets to debug on. You get to play with nvPerfHUD and stuff like that?

Dd

[Minute]

Who cares if it's cheaper/pirating/blah blah. In the end the would still make a huge profit over the cost of making it. So why not? I just don't get it.

[Embar Angylwrath]

Its a cross-line equation, Minute.

And specifically for Madden, it goes like this.

Code has been done for consoles. Cost known. Rate of return predicted on sales. Code can never be done for the ever evolving mix of PC configurations. Cost at X and increasing, rate of return constantly diminshed.

Support issues for consoles are resolved. Cost known and predictable. Rate of return predicted on sales. Support issues for PC unknown, cost at X and increasing. Cost at X and increasing, rate of return constantly diminshed.

The cross-over effect happens when EA calculates the total number of Madden PC buyers/users, and deducts the calcualted cost of the support of those users. When the cross-over hits a line that is below the rate of return in the Madden business plan, EA pulls the plug on PC line.

So essentially, most of the work for consoles is finished, and EA can predict a rate of return on Madden. With PCs, not so much. Expect EA to take this strategy further with other established and proven games. EA is taking the business equivalent of the "bird-in-the-hand" philosophy, and eliminating unknowns. Its a sound business strategy after a business is past its growth and market share acquistion stage. EA is certianly there. Now, it's all about predictiable returns for shareholders.

[Ddrak]

The PC market isn't quite as "unknown" as you're making out though - the Madden series (especially) has a 12 month window they are targetting and no chip manufacturer is releasing anything EA doesn't know about within the next 12 months. As Bahd said, it's more that you have to do a bunch more testing on the different configurations.

That being said, consoles are starting to get more that way with downloadable firmware updates. When you're operating at the bleeding edge of system performance on a console, it's not a stretch to imagine firmware upgrades altering the performance profile of the system and screwing up some optimizations you've done.

You're right about the profit/loss equation though. The thing that's tilted it to the PC side typically is not having to pay the console maker for the right to publish on that console, which equates to 20%-70% of your profit margins. Honestly, I think giving up the PC is a bad idea because you're giving up the more serious gamers who have the ability to make a lot more noise about it than console gamers. That's just my 2c though.

Dd

[Klast Brell]

Most of the big console only games were later released for PC. Think Mass Effect, etc. I suspect madden will be along in 4 to 6 months from the console launch date.

[Bahd Zoolander]

You also have to deal with XP, Vista, shader 2/3, varying amounts of video ram and system ram, etc.

I'm pretty sure DirectX does a lot of this work for you.

I'm a game developer, and I'm 100% sure it don't.

It's just a tool, and if you use it wrong you're fucked. You need to handle this by optimizing content for each situation or the least common denominator, and shaders don't write themselves.

[Bahd Zoolander]

You get to play with nvPerfHUD and stuff like that?

Dd

We use NVPerfHUD on PC stuff. It's a great tool, but not as good as PIX on the 360.

[Minute]

Ok Embar, I get that. But to simplify that more. Considering the rate of sales for the past 13 years of the PC version of Madden how can you not figure that it will return a profit? Even with the unknown variables. It has to be an overwhelming yes that the cost of making and even supporting it would be less than the profits made. Am I wrong? I mean granted I don't know the actual numbers, but when I see the ranking in sales that Madden has made in the PC charts I find it very very hard to believe that it isn't a given that the game would make not only a profit but a sizable one.

Convince me that there is even the possibility that releasing Madden, considering it's years of sales records released on PC, wouldn't make a profit. I just don't see it.

[Fallakin Kuvari]

http://pc.ign.com/articles/895/895012p1.html

2010 will be on PC

[Minute]

So in 1 year all the reasons they gave for not putting it out on the PC are gone? Bullshit. Fuck You EA!

[Ddrak]

Ahh... so what really happened was they were running short on time for all the new revamped stuff for '09 and had to cut a platform to get it out on time. Beats me why they didn't cut PS3 instead of PC, but whatever!

Dd

[Rsak]

Read an interview about Final Fantasy XIII after this years E3 and how it will be released on 360 and PS3. They said that they do their coding and debugging on PC and then basically run do the builds for the platform they will be testing on. This way their decision to make it cross platform has less impact on release dates and such.

Granted I am positive that this kind of development process started when they did Final Fantasy XI the MMO which was released both on PC and PS2.

[Arathena]

Ahh... so what really happened was they were running short on time for all the new revamped stuff for '09 and had to cut a platform to get it out on time. Beats me why they didn't cut PS3 instead of PC, but whatever!

Dd

You cut whatever makes your directors feel better, not the least profitable arm. If they're spazzing about piracy, you cut the PC version.