If Obama takes the lead....

[Harlowe]

Who thought that? He went from useless to dangerous. Unless you are talking about his usual apologists. I've always disliked Bush. I actually preferred McCain over Gore or Bush back then.

[Lurker]

As much as he'd like to, Obama isn't going to get us out of there fast. I think we all know it's pure wishful thinking that we can un-ring that bell.
...
So you might believe that, but I don't.

Nobody has claimed the ability to un-ring the bell and nobody is promising an overnight withdrawal, but you don't need to un-shit the bed to realize it's a good idea to climb out of it.

I think Obama's strategy to withdraw over 16 months while engaging in region wide diplomacy is the right one, and I think he believes it's the right strategy too. I also think the military will welcome the change although you'd be a better judge of that than me. I'm certain that Obama would begin drawing down our presence while McCain would increase it or maintain the status quo. Call me naive.

So I find it an interesting race, rather than a dirty cockfight for humanity.

Hey... I wasn't that melodramatic about the stakes, was I?

[Embar Angylwrath]

I remember when people on this board thought George Bush was a 'compassionate conservative', too.

I don't.

Links please.

[Harlowe]

Hey... I wasn't that melodramatic about the stakes, was I?

Heh, well not really, but I got the impression you were insinuating I wasn't taking our Country's issues seriously.

I like Obama, I have since he gave that awesome speech years ago at the DNC Convention. I just think his whole game-plan on Iraq is a whole lot of wishful thinking. What I'm saying is that it's not a black & white a choice between Obama and McCain (okay no pun intended re: skin color).

Romney, Huckabee or Guiliani? I might agree with you on the melodramatic comparison.

[Lurker]

I got the impression you were insinuating I wasn't taking our Country's issues seriously.

Yep, I certainly was. I couldn't square your position on Iraq with your statement about wanting a close race.

I like Obama... I just think his whole game-plan on Iraq is a whole lot of wishful thinking.

What do you mean? That Obama won't begin to withdraw our troops or that his plan for regional diplomacy won't work? Cause given the choice between two plans that won't fix Iraq, where one of the plans withdraws our troops and the other keeps them there, I'll take the one where we leave.

[Partha]

Embar, you should be glad the archives don't go back to 2001.

Hell, they're embarrassing enough for you over Iraq just going back to 2004.

Beek.. every war... and I mean every war... has to be sold to the people. That's just simple truth, and every President who put troops in harm's way has done it. What you call collusion, I call coordination. And again, that type of activity is nothing out of the ordinary when two countries stand together before military hostilities.

[Harlowe]

I want a good race with strong candidates on both sides. Not a race of ...gee which side sucks the least. I really don't see that as not caring about our Country's issues.

I'm not at all interested in partyline politics. I don't believe it's black & white between parties and I don't care how schizophrenic that makes me as a voter, but like I've said, I have and will continue to vote for candidates from the Democratic, Republican & Independant parties depending upon who I think is BEST for the job and where my vote will do the most good.

I could give a shit how much either side tries to demonize the other's views. Bush screwed shit up, screwed it up bigtime, but I won't be holding his actions against all Republican candidates.

[Embar Angylwrath]

Embar, you should be glad the archives don't go back to 2001.

Hell, they're embarrassing enough for you over Iraq just going back to 2004.

Beek.. every war... and I mean every war... has to be sold to the people. That's just simple truth, and every President who put troops in harm's way has done it. What you call collusion, I call coordination. And again, that type of activity is nothing out of the ordinary when two countries stand together before military hostilities.

What do you find wrong with that statement... and...

is that the best you got?

[Partha]

I could give a shit how much either side tries to demonize the other's views. Bush screwed shit up, screwed it up bigtime, but I won't be holding his actions against all Republican candidates.

Okay....

But what about those politicians who not only failed to oppose Bush policies, but voted for them....again...and again....and again...

[Partha]

Embar, you should be glad the archives don't go back to 2001.

Hell, they're embarrassing enough for you over Iraq just going back to 2004.

Beek.. every war... and I mean every war... has to be sold to the people. That's just simple truth, and every President who put troops in harm's way has done it. What you call collusion, I call coordination. And again, that type of activity is nothing out of the ordinary when two countries stand together before military hostilities.

What do you find wrong with that statement... and...

is that the best you got?

Nope. That's just an illustration about how far you twisted your moral values to support Bush blunders.

[Embar Angylwrath]

You seriously lack reading comprehension. Bush isn't even named in that post. I was talking about what a Preisdent (any President) has to do in those circumstances.

[Harlowe]

I could give a shit how much either side tries to demonize the other's views. Bush screwed shit up, screwed it up bigtime, but I won't be holding his actions against all Republican candidates.

Okay....

But what about those politicians who not only failed to oppose Bush policies, but voted for them....again...and again....and again...

We've had Democrats do that as well (including the Iraq issue in the beginning). Not Obama, but I believe Hillary has. Saying "well I thought we were just doing this.." doesn't really fly with me.

McCain bucked the system a good long while. I think he realized he was never going to get party support to get into the oval office doing that, so he started playing nice. Not having to kiss Bush's ass for his party's support, I think we might see the old McCain in the oval office, if he were to win.

I'm not saying RA-RA McCain, but he was a pretty moderate guy for a good portion of his political career.

[Kulaf]

I could give a shit how much either side tries to demonize the other's views. Bush screwed shit up, screwed it up bigtime, but I won't be holding his actions against all Republican candidates.

Okay....

But what about those politicians who not only failed to oppose Bush policies, but voted for them....again...and again....and again...

Hey now.....Hilary did her best let's not be too hard on her.

[Klast Brell]

so I have the sneaking suspicion he's been playing the party-game for a good while just to get on the ticket. I don't think he will be a status quo president.

If he has been "faking it" then so much for his famous "straight talk"

[Harlowe]

so I have the sneaking suspicion he's been playing the party-game for a good while just to get on the ticket. I don't think he will be a status quo president.

If he has been "faking it" then so much for his famous "straight talk"

I'm not saying this to be trite, but I really don't feel ANY of the politicians give us straight talk. Of course I could (and probably am, since I don't work for the Psychic Friends Network) absolutely wrong about the guy, but that's just been my gut feeling watching him over the last 8-9 years.