Edwards wants a socialist state

[Embar Angylwrath]

Alcohol-related visits—Although there is a separate item on the Patient Record form to indicate whether the visit was alcohol related, sometimes an alcohol-related reason for visit is specified or an alcohol-related diagnosis is rendered without the alcohol item being checked. Using the checkbox alone provides an estimate of about 2,535,000 visits (2.2 percent, SE = 0.1) related to the use of alcohol by the patient or another person or both (data not shown). The alcohol checkbox was marked ‘‘unknown’’ or left blank for 11.8 percent of visits. Using data from the checkbox, any alcohol-related reasons for visit, any alcohol-related external causes of injury, and any alcohol-related diagnoses produced an estimate of 4,003,000 visits (3.5 percent, SE = 0.2).

So, even under the expanded definition which includes spaces left blank in the report, you're still coming up with less than 4% of all ER visits being alcohol related. Where are you going to get the data to support Embar that says that ~38 million ER visits involved drugs?

I said 37%. That number came from the report I linked. You say 37% isn't really 37% of the total, but thats how the sentence reads. So I'm not pulling numbers out of my ass, as you so like claim, I'm pulling them from reports. You may disagree with the reports, but I'm not fabricating the data, or twisting it, as seem to like doing.

[Partha]

Your own articles point out that you're twisting. From your first link:

n the single year 2003, there were over 2 million hospitalizations (3) and over 4 million emergency room visits (4) for alcohol-related conditions.

From your second:

For patients ages 12 to 17 years old, 56,978 visits involved alcohol, and for patients ages 18 to 20, the number of visits climbs to 88,781. The rate of alcohol-only visits for the 18- to 20-year-olds was 3.5 times that for patients ages 12 to17.

DAWN estimates that 27 percent of emergency room visits were related to the use of alcohol in combination with another drug. Alcohol was most frequently combined with cocaine (86,482 visits), marijuana (33,643 visits), cocaine and marijuana (22,377 visits) and heroin (12,797).

Now, 27% of 104M visits would be 28 million and change. That's a far cry short of the ~150k reported in your second link.

Some basic math on your part would have been a whole lot better than trying to defend your ass-pulling.

[Embar Angylwrath]

Need to clarify something in one of my earlier posts...

When I said I stopped being a Repub when Reagan closed the mental health centers in California, that's not quite true. I should have said, when some things were happening with the Republicans during Reagan's second term in the White House, and I was evaluating Reagan and the Republicans for what they stood for, I looked back on his career and found out what he did as governor of California, which included he closing of mental health centers. That, along with other issues I had, caused me to leave the Republican party behind.

I didn't mean to imply that the defining moment of my departure was centered soley around an incident in the 70s. Hell, I wasn't even old enough to vote then.

[Lurker]

Let me repeat that I find it comical that the statistics are generated by the patients rather then the doctors. That is all.

Rsak, The Patient Record form isn't filled out by the patient.

[Rsak]

So you are saying that the reason for visit is determined by mind reading and filled out by the adminstration?

[Lurker]

No, I'm saying that the Patient Record form is filled out by the doctor and other hospital staff after examination and diagnosis, not by the patient and not through some arcane process.

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Embar,
Partha did a great job showing that your facts and stats were wrong. Any chance of you admitting that?

[Rsak]

You must be confused on what a reason to visit the ER is. That information can only come from the patient with the only exceptions being in cases of ambulance rides from accident scenes then it is determined by the paramedics, but otherwise it is what compelling reason that brought the patient in or caused a family member to bring the patient in. There is also no guarantee that the stated compelling reason has any relation to the true cause of the problem.

All that said, I fail to see why you are arguing about completely immaterial tangent that I found comical.

[Embar Angylwrath]

No, I'm saying that the Patient Record form is filled out by the doctor and other hospital staff after examination and diagnosis, not by the patient and not through some arcane process.

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Embar,
Partha did a great job showing that your facts and stats were wrong. Any chance of you admitting that?

Yes. I agree with Partha that the number of drug/alcohol ER related visits are closer to 4%. I think there is a preponderance of information in other reports, and conflciting (actually, imprecise) infomation the report I cited, that indicate such.

[Harlowe]

I said nothing about turning away people with mental illness. Personally, I find the treatment of the mentally ill in this country abhorrent. To me, they are just as disabled (for work purposes) as someone who is injured in a car accident, and I feel they should be part of the "safety-net" health care system. As an aside, when Reagan, as Gov of California, closed most of the mental health assisted living centers, that's when I couldn't be a Republican anymore.

Society does have an obligation to those who are damaged beyond repair, or at least beyond our ability to repair. We have an obligation to meet their basic needs of food, shelter and clothing, and to keep them reasonably safe from harm. My issue is with the people who choose to immerse themselves in a life of self-destruction, and then ask the rest of society to pay for the consequences of it.

I do believe we are on the same page then.