Clan Ascension Jumps Fear raid

Harlowe · Post by **Harlowe** » Mon Apr 21, 2003 3:00 pm

They post that in case they are up ...come on, that's just dense not to figure that out. People reserve Fear and Hate with the hopes that MAYBE they'll luck out and get some epic mobs, but they know they aren't entitled to them.

If 90% of the guilds holding planar raids felt entitled to those mobs, we'd see rants weekly on golems/epic mobs being taken down. As is it, we don't see those rants and it's been this way ever since CT was revamped.

Klaek · Post by **Klaek** » Mon Apr 21, 2003 3:03 pm

Damn everyone gets a scheduled turn at epic mobs?!?! Shit I never got that memo. Prolly part of that whole TPS fiasco. There never has never will be a epic reservation schedule.

Why don't you go to the other servers, Brell is one of a very few if not the only one who has a self imposed "reservation" system of any kind. If you were on any other server this wouldn't be an issue. If the reservation system would have been shit canned this wouldn't be an issue. Christ it seems that this isn't an issue in anyone's mind but your own.

Given ample time/strategy/people any killable mob can and will be killed. That is not an issue. If it can be killed it will be. I'm sure that if all the elemental plane guild backed off and let us work on Rallos Zek uncontested in any way shape or form VC could take it. Sure it might take us a month and a half to actually pull off a victory, but it can be done. So does that mean that because we want to try everyone should just back off and allow us to cockblock them from loot/flags/etc? Fuck no. In the time where we are getting people ready, strategy finalized, etc...I'm sure that some of these uber guild could walk right pass us kill him, move on, and allow him to respawn before we would be able to. Speed / Lack of outside commitments / what ever you want to call it is a skill. Not everyone is on your timezone. Not everyone works 9 to 5 Mon - Fri.

Eq has no "pause" button its going to go on while you are playing or not. If you want a console style game then buy a PS2. Or buy nWn and host your own server with your buddies and do whatever you want on your own time table. Screw you for wanting to hold others back. If a mob is up and I have the force to kill it, than Fuggit I'm killing it. Be happy that the general public allows people the right to reserve the planer armor mobs. Its a way to upgrade upper midlevels and learn raid tactics. But asking for uncontested epic mob spawns is a steaming pile of halflings.

Awea · Post by **Awea** » Mon Apr 21, 2003 3:04 pm

I'm thinkin this raid woulda flopped regardless. If people give up so fast because the golems are gone, then it would never happen. What if the raid the night before killed them? or before them! and why does no one love Dracolich! golems get all the lovin.

I LOVE YOU DRACOLICH!

Croinc · Post by **Croinc** » Mon Apr 21, 2003 3:05 pm

/clap Dapo

Post by **Ddrak** » Mon Apr 21, 2003 3:06 pm

Edyil,

Your initial post on this is at 4:24pm - 90 minutes BEFORE you were due to raid. The post was most certainly my definition of a "hissy fit", as was the retarded rant someone put on the main boards which Crelone had the sense to set straight. You've so far claimed:

You didn't log on until 5pm. Lie. You were already logged on and cancelled the raid by 4:24pm.
The went in at 5am EST. Lie. They were out by 5am EST leaving plenty of time for the armor mobs to respawn.
They took down epic mobs "the didn't sign up for". So what? You didn't sign up for them either.
The armor mobs were "all killed". Misrepresentation. All the armor mobs would have respawned by the time your raid started.

I'm not going to continue because there's just so much bullshit you've spewed on this thread that it's not even worth repeating the rest of the retarded misconception you have about the system.

I'm sure they have their opinions of you too, but right now you are just being a whiney little bitch who's crying cause someone better than you got to the mobs first. Yes - I think they are better, not only for seizing the opportunity and taking the initiative to kill the mobs but because your actions were to run straight here (4:24pm remember) and whine your ass off about someone beating you to a spawn. Fucking loser crybaby.

Here's what you still don't understand. YOU DON'T HAVE A SCHEDULED TURN FOR EPIC MOBS. Have you fucking figured it out yet? Look at what Crelone posted on the board. He's the mod in charge of reservations and you STILL are whining like someone has taken something from you that you were entitled to. You aren't entitled to it. Fucking figure it out already you daft bastard. Does it really take 150 posts to get that through your thick fucking skull that CA were not wrong here.

It's still funny that you think everyone that doesn't think you are entitled to the epic mobs are "the asshole group". Sorry, but if putting your high and mighty ass back into place as just another person on a big, old server who ain't entitled to shit makes me "an asshole" in your mind then I'm the worst asshole you'll ever meet. Suck it up loser.

Tell me how CA didn't work for the golems? They took some 40 DTs pulling them. That seems like fucking hard work to me. A lot harder than your whiney little ass just making some groups and typing shit on a board to reserve something that wasn't reservable anyway. Explain to me in detail why YOU deserved the golems more than CA? I think they clearly earned their drops and you didn't, so cut your losses and better luck next time.

If you're definition of an "entitlement whore" is someone that can't mobilize to take down a mob before someone else can but demands access to that mob anyway then congratulations - you're one and I'm not. I'm glad we agree finally.

Dd

Awea · Post by **Awea** » Mon Apr 21, 2003 3:12 pm

"Red leader, this is Gold Leader, we're starting our approach!"

Vumil · Post by **Vumil** » Mon Apr 21, 2003 3:18 pm

Eanamin,

That was before the fear upgrade right after epics were added, so the rant actually wasn't that retarded, back then all of fear was considered reserved. Fear was upgraded a few weeks after and it changed.

Edyil,

It's not common courtesy, its been how it is for years.

Emetibu · Post by **Emetibu** » Mon Apr 21, 2003 3:22 pm

Your initial post on this is at 4:24pm - 90 minutes BEFORE you were due to raid

Dd are you comparing the time to EST or CST? The clocks on the boards were never adjusted to reflect daylight savings time. Just curious since it shows he posted at 3:24 which would have been 3:24 Mountain time. If he is on the east coast then it was 5:24 EST. 4:24 Central time - you get the point.
Just curious.

saphdia · Post by **saphdia** » Mon Apr 21, 2003 3:23 pm

We spoke with LotS and they did not give you the raid. You are not on the reservation list anywhere. You jumped the raid. You took down the epics that you didnt sign up for. You are a piece of crap, regardless of what you think your guild stands for.

They dont' have to give CA the raid. It's FFA after the raid is done as long as they do not touch armor mobs that wont be repopped for the next raid.

LotS could have taken out the golems as well so you wouldnt' have had the golems anyway if LotS did take them out. If I had a dime for all the times we went after Fear and we didnt' get a shot at golems /stomps feet in a fit....i'd be rich. If you haven't learned by now that most of eq relys on luck with spawns..then you simply havent' been paying attn. EQ is full of just you have to be "lucky" to get something.

I think you owe CA an apology.

/shrug

On a side note, I still support reservations..as some guilds are still in need of fear/hate armor and it gives them a chance to learn raiding. It slows us down a little sure..but we abide within the alloted rules and have no problem with them, especially since our guild benefitted from them back when we needed it. There is a lot to do in this game..becoming obsessed with a zone or two over epics is just downright silly when there is so much content.

Comparing chardok royals to fear/hate armor mobs is silly. While yes the queen and king CAN be one grouped..it usually isn't. I think reservations are still needed for hate/fear because it's kinda crappy if you walk in and see one group working on fear/hate. On a free day this is ok..but atleast with reservations it gives the guilds that are learning how to raid a chance. Not sure why ppl who are past doing hate/fear seem to think others shouldn't have that option to still reserve. On the flip side..ppl who are still getting armor from using these rules to their benefit shouldn't be trying to read stuff into them that is not there (ie. that they deserve or are guaranteed epic mobs).

This is an asinine statement:

As I said, most folks respect others intentions.

I have a guild that doesn't require me to post in this section of looking for more section when we go to do big raids because we have enough. No, we weren't always like that..it's just been recently. So, because I don't check in the LFM section every time I decide to zone in and do a raid in any other zone other than the ones I know that are reservable maybe an hour before someone else has one scheduled...I'm bad and am an entitlement whore? I think you know what you can do with yourself. I"m all for yanking the LFM section....it's because of ppl like you that reservations get chipped at when you read stuff into things that aren't there.

I never said it did. I said we want a shot at epics when our scheduled turn comes around.

None of us following the reservation system had this perk..why the hell should you? Answer that plz. You act like everyone BUT you had has this perk..bullshit.

The raid got cancelled because folks were dejected due to CA taking down the golems. True

So you are admitting that you weren't there for the armor? If that is true..then you are in the same boat as the rest of us....having to time the golems and go in when you can or get lucky on a date you have reserved. /shrug If your guild STILL needs armor, I'd personally reassess what lootwhores they are to ruin it for the rest that needed armor just because their "epic mobs" weren't up. Either way...you look stupid and owe CA an apology. Btw, SOH has gotten golems quite a few times recently when no one has reserved the plane. It's not like they are never up uncontested because they are.

Again..none of us following the reservation system after all these yrs..had this perk..WHY should YOU????? Just who is the entitlement whore? I would not have been so mean on this thread to you if you hadnt' of come out blaming CA for this...you are flat wrong and to try to dirty their name over this when it's your fault for reading stuff into it.....is just..well lame to not even apologize. I think if you go to dirty someone's name you better be right.

Saphdia

Post by **Ddrak** » Mon Apr 21, 2003 3:30 pm

Yeah, Eme. My mistake. Sorry about that one Edyil. Revise my statement to say you posted 30 minutes before the raid was due to start and I was wrong about the time you logged on.

Dd

Post by **Ddrak** » Mon Apr 21, 2003 3:35 pm

Holy shit! I agree with Saph on a reservations rant!!

I am happy to live with reservations in Fear and Hate (pre-change) for the sole reason that it's a fun raid for people just learning and having to race can screw that up. It's when greedy assholes start using them to block access to epic mobs and whine when they don't get their way that I really wonder if the value for the younger raiders is there.

Dd

Nasren · Post by **Nasren** » Mon Apr 21, 2003 3:36 pm

Lets see Fear mobs are what 12hours roughly.

The previous scheduled raid ends about 8 or 9pm PST (11pm to midnight EST).
CA goes in at 10pm PST (1am est)
CA raid ends at 1am PST (4am EST).

So given respawn times the last armor mob killed would spawn no later than 1pm PST (4pm EST) and 2 hours before your scheduled raid.

I am not shocked your ranger scout in the AM could walk around and not see many mobs on tracking. He scouted far to early to get any successful idea on how much of the plane would be up.

In the old days when raids always used the SS, you ran in during the mornings if you couldn't be up late because usually the mobs had not respawned yet.

Given that CA sounds like a PST guild I would hardly call 1am an all night raid. The server consists of people from around the World, just cause it is late for you doesn't mean its late for another person or guild to be raiding it could be their Prime raiding hours.

As to Epic mobs in the plane nearly 2 years ago it was decided epic mobs in the planes where not covered by reservations and so long as armor mobs where up by the time the scheduled raid started all is fine.

The same people telling you you are wrong here are some of the same who have jumped all over others who killed armor mobs that didn't respawn in time for a scheduled raid.

The reservation is for armor mobs only, it has been that way for a long time. Any other train of thought is wrong, anyone reserving to block epic mobs so they get them is wrong. It has been clearly stated and been respected for the most part. If people are abusing the reservation system then like other reservations that ended up with abuse the thinking needs to change so it no longer gets abused or the reservations need to end.

You either respect that when you reserve a plane it is only for armor mobs (minus sky which is reservable for a whole different reason due to keys) or you don't reserve the plane because you want only epics and try to work with guilds reserving to get the epics you need or go in between raids.

Reservations work due to courtesy. It is the courtesy of others to respect your desire to go after armor mobs at a set time to get the most benefit for a raid. Brell is a very nice server that does try to help each other for the most part it is why on numerous times people have come to gether to find a middle ground to prevent the feelings you are expressing.

The options way back where to:
1) end all reservations
2) allow reservations for armor mobs but allow epic mobs to be a seperate target that can be killed so long as reservations on armor mobs are not killed.
3) Make it so reservations gave you everything including epic mobs which was pretty much deciding on option 1.

For the most part people came together and decided the fairest was option 2. Not everyone on every side was happy but it is respected. Those of us (like me) who wanted all reservations ended respected people making those reservations and work within the system. It would be nice if everyone reserving planes would likewise reserve the planes only for the intentions of needing the armor or learning to handle large raids (for that level). I find it sad though not shocking that the reservations are used for other purposes (it happened with dragons and it happened with the FGs, it would be nice if people learned from those and worked to prevent the lose of another reservation.

You can either choose to be nice and work through things with others or do everything shy of breaking the SoE rules. How you decide to proceed has a lot of bearing on what enjoyment you can get out of the game and just how much you can accomplish. One doesn't need a reservations system to tell them what they can go after and how to act with others. Part of the joy of the game is social interaction, reservations do not help in opening up lines of communication and talking through issues you may have with another guild, they are more of a tool to prevent such dialogue.

I'll get off my soapbox now.

Enrichwar · Post by **Enrichwar** » Mon Apr 21, 2003 3:41 pm

Edyil, instead of just being a little bitch, why don't you keep an eye on the calander, and on the days its not reserved, just go kill the golems if there up.

P.S. Robyn, is that your new girl friend in the pic you was telling me about?

Bahd Zoolander · Post by **Bahd Zoolander** » Mon Apr 21, 2003 3:52 pm

This rant makes baby jesus cry

Chadekaz · Post by **Chadekaz** » Mon Apr 21, 2003 4:09 pm

The problem with reading the rant board is that people you run into in-game and think are great folks turn into worthless pasty-faced cocksuckers here.....

A little clarification. It's my fault the raid was called, many of us were burned out from the night before and we had some issues we were dealing with. And yes, knowing the epic mobs were cleared already wasn't a big motivator. Edy logged on expecting to rock & roll and he was understandably pissed.

Reservations are for armor, not epics/FCFS/PnP/bhlah bhlah bhlah...whatevah. I don't personally hold a grudge against CA or Maxxam. Not thrilled about it but it looks like that's my fault from operating from an incorrect assumption. That being that a planar reservation was a planar reservation. I was unaware of the armor loot policy. So sue me, 3 years on Vallon Zek and Stormhammer, I'm still learning how to play nice with others.

So, /salute Maxxam, best wishes to you. To the flamers and those that would like to insinuate the Storm has a problem taking down mobs or like to whine or whatever...go fuck yourselves, you don't know shit about us or what we do. Many of us, for example, xferred here from other servers over the last few months and busted our asses gearing and leveling. We work for what we get.

Chadekaz
61 Warlord of Innoruuk
PROUD Officer, Apocalyptic Storm

/em slowly extends his middle finger

Fistinface · Post by **Fistinface** » Mon Apr 21, 2003 4:10 pm

I think you owe CA an apology.

word.

______________
Phistt 65 Arcanist

Jadelin Iceheart · Post by **Jadelin Iceheart** » Mon Apr 21, 2003 4:45 pm

Saph makes some good points and her post is a more convincing look at reservations than any of yours have been Edyil. And indeed, you might consider an apology for, by your own admission, being incorrect as to how reservations work and attempting to sully their name because of it.

Post by **Ddrak** » Mon Apr 21, 2003 5:14 pm

Chadekaz,

Well said - mistakes and misunderstandings happen. Please note none of my comments are directed at the Storm, just at Edyil himself for the tone and accusations he used on this board against CA and Maxxim himself.

So sue me, 3 years on Vallon Zek and Stormhammer, I'm still learning how to play nice with others.

Dd

Maraulth · Post by **Maraulth** » Mon Apr 21, 2003 5:44 pm

You mean POF and POH still not FFA yet? Jeez... I pitty the poeple who still moderate the reservation list then.

ZanypherCocoapuffs · Post by **ZanypherCocoapuffs** » Tue Apr 22, 2003 12:51 am

I just love how unrealistic some of you people are. But since some assholes decided they were going to make assumptions about me, I guess I'll respond.

Your argument is based on the fallacy that the only thing protecting "smaller guilds" and their access to Fear from being overrun by those you think are "elitist assholes" is the reservation system. I'd like to ask what possible evidence you have for that? Please tell me which of Trak, VS, FGs, Nag or Vox have been shut away from younger guild's reach when they went off reservation?

Actually Ddrak, isn't that exactly why the reservation system has existed this long? Sure as hell isn't because SR and Watchers and four other higher end guilds keep clashing over raid times in Fear or Hate. The reservation systems have been around exaclty for those smaller guilds to give them an equal shot at those zones and when they were reserved, those mobs. Trakanon is, of those examples, the only one that could be contended by some of the higher guilds because of his teeth. In fact, when the reservation system for Trakanon was ousted, was NOT one of the main reasons being because the uber guilds wanted to get his teeth for keys and did NOT want to have to wait for their turn on the list? The other reason was because of the change of the spawn timer after patch for Trakanon and other dragons, but the point remained the same. They wanted him to become a FCFS mob because of what they wanted, and how is that NOT entitlement whoring or being an elitist asshole? Yes, people, especially Twiggie, will pipe in about how the system was being abused and blah blah bullshit, but the same was said about Nagafen and Vox. Now regarding Vox and Naggy, those are extreme circumstances based upon a level limited mob, which couldn't therefore be hogged by higher level guilds who had other dragons to take out that would result in the same thing. But at the time, that decision was done based upon not only the regular dragon loot, but the EPIC drops that were involved with those wurms. So dont tell me the reservations systems have nothing to do with epic mobs. VS, Vox, and Naggy were all reservable BECAUSE of their epic involvement, but you couldn't and still can't reserve a plane for those things.

Why exactly? Why the fuck not? I realize that those mobs are no longer reservable, but at one time they were, so therefore why is it unreasonable to expect that the epic mobs in POH and POF wouldn't be part of the reservation?

Ddrak said:

By the way, the only person to mention the PnP so far is you. The rest of us prefer to use the system that works well everywhere else in EQ called "FCFS".

Lisset said:

FCFS isn't a system. It's simply "the way things are". You can't abuse FCFS unless you're actually violating "Play Nice".

Know what else? PnP was brought up by:

1) Zany in a strawman, which Enrich and I dispelled.
2) You picked up on Zany's strawman claiming *we* said it.

Yeah, my example is a "strawman". Actually I was invoking the name of the PnP as an example of how people get what they want. You call it the FCFS system when its basically the same goddamn thing. Oh right, but you seem to think that all guilds when they go into a FCFS situation will talk to each other and work shit out. You know damn well this isn't always the case, and we've seen some fine examples of that lately. Not only that, but wasn't even SR ranted about because a necro of theirs was playing the entitlement whore card?

I think what you need to realize, is that while YOU yourself and your guild and maybe most of the top 5 guilds on the server wont "oppress" the smaller guilds, there ARE people out there who will do what they want, when they want, and anybody else be damned. If FCFS was really a system that everybody adhered to, then I'd be all for it, but everybody doesn't, and on a regular basis. On the other hand, most everybody adheres to the reservation systems. Yes, there are people who break those rules, but most people adhere to them. Why? Because they know they want to reserve those zones sometime too, and unless they want to be blacklisted off the Brell Serillis board, they'd better cooperate.

All FCFS is is some sort of jovial organized chaos. What you're proposing is anarchy, with tea parties here and there between the guildleaders to make sure nobody takes a dump on another person's party. And you know as well as I do, that with anarchy, nobody will have to abide by anything BUT the PnP. You seem to think that people are entitled to run around and do what they want because they can. That, to me, is being an elitist asshole. Its the notion that "because I'm better then you, I should be able to do what I want." Yes, maybe you will bow to the person who gets to said mob first and let them have it, but you can go and find something else to kill. Like it or not, not everybody can do this. To say that everybody can is rather stupid. As Ediyl pointed out, when his raid people found out they'd have no shot at any epic mobs, they left. Why? Because those are the only mobs that were worth killing. If I knew I wasn't going to have a shot at accomplishing anything towards bettering myself on a raid, I probably wouldn't go. There are a lot of people who wouldn't either.

So to me, the reservations systems are not only a way to keep some sort of semblence of order publicly, but also to give people a shot at things that might otherwise be completely hogged by a few people. Yeah, you all can say it wont happen or the novelty of it will wear off, but all I have to say is that until Manaburn was nerfed, it was really hard to get a Gorenaire raid going....