EQ II - Month 1 Impressions + "Macro'd to death" B

[Ddrak]

Game design intentionally excludes eye candy. It's taken as read that EQ2 and WoW are far more graphically advanced than EQ.

For design itself, WoW and EQ2 are remarkably similar. Once you peel off the interface, the only markedly different design feature of the two games is WoW's embracing of RvR with EQ2's distinct avoidance of it. Sure there are some subtle combat engine differences (Rage vs Power for melee etc.) but nothing particularly striking.

I don't automatically assume new design is "better" (for example, Unix has a superior design to Windows), but in the case of EQ this is very clearly true. EQ itself wasn't designed all that well and I think it honestly surprised the original designers just how long it has lived - especially as it outlived their tenure at Verany/Sony.

The current state of EQ is an inconsistant mish-mash of rules from 8 different expansions and at least 3 different design teams that may or may not apply depending on which zone you're in. There are hacks throughout the game to prevent design mistakes from previous expansions or the original game from unbalancing content in the later game - CHeal being the most obvious of these. The combat engine is remarkably unimaginitive with the holy trinity of tank/healer/chanter being virtually impossible to design against without employing encounter-specific modifications to long standing rules. In summary, EQ in its present state is almost the opposite of design - an evolved mess of semi-designed layers.

EQ has become the Rolemaster of the MMOG world.


Here's my partial list of fundamental "better design" for EQ2/WoW over EQ1:

- Downtime is minimal

How long does it take to "med to full" in EQ1? Compare this with the newer games out which minimize this essentially wasted game time. Extended downtimes have long been recognized as bad design, but this is unavoidable in EQ without significantly breaking long standing content that wasn't designed for a different paradigm.


- Combat is fast and high energy

You live or you don't. You don't tank something for 45 minutes semi-afk in a test of endurance. It gives me great comfort in EQ2 to look into the sky and see Luclin blow apart all over the cosmos. Some expansions came close to getting this right, but as EQ goes further and further beyond the design of the original combat engine where Naggy's dps was the pinnacle of power you get far more into the realm where you're just doing everything you can to avoid being "one rounded" - an exercise in luck.


- Combat "rules" are consistent across the world.

As I mentioned above, EQ is an evolved mess. CotH and CHeal are excellent examples of different rules for different zones and expansions. Rampage works differently in different zones. Spells are sometimes avoidable and sometimes not for no discernable in-game reason. EQ is a mass of exceptions to rules. EQ2 and WoW are not and both have been designed (so we're told) to allow for expansion to at least double their current maximum levels.


- No naked corpse runs

Although part of EQ dogma, and often an interesting experience, these really aren't great game design. Death in an MMOG happens - it really can't be avoided but to have players that may be half way through a zone requiring a 13k tank to have to run back naked to get their gear isn't a great design feature - especially with the differential between geared and ungeared in modern EQ. The "Graveyard' concept went a long way to alleviating this, but it only applied to a single expansion and inexplicably wasn't carried forward at all (again, inconsistancy).


- Boats, Griffons and Books

EQ is horribly inconsistant with it's design of rapid travel. It lurches from boats that make you take 30 minutes to get to another continent to PoK books allowing you relatively fast transport anywhere back to boats to get to Natimbi then allowing teleports to Natimbi but runs through highly dangerous zones to progress to implementing porters again. That's not design - that's a clear absence of design. EQ2 and WoW don't have this issue - rapid transit exists.


I can honestly not think of a single design feature of EQ that surpasses anything in either WoW or EQ2. That's why I was asking for someone else to list a few.


Do any of those make EQ2/WoW "better" as a whole? No, because the gaming experience is far more than just the game design and as you've stated many times the community is a huge part of MMOGs. Do many of these design flaws in EQ exist because it's an older game with 8 expansions under its belt that were never even considered in the original? Of course, but that doesn't make them any less flaws. Something doesn't become "not a flaw" because it has a history.

So, in short, I think I am very justified to say objectively that EQ2 and WoW both exhibit better game design than EQ, and while I am less familiar with other MMOGs, I think the same argument can be made for almost anything released since EQ1 was (the "almost" is my convenient out).

Dd

[Terd]

Holly crap.

Both you Akh and Ddrak should be mega /bonked on the head. How can you two be so fricken serious about a game(s)? You guys seem to be able to suck the joy out of something which should be nothing but.

Which game is better? What a stupid topic.

Terd

[Flunkie]

Some people like WoW, some people like EQ2, enough said!

[MadrixDoT]

I like pie.


(It had to be said.)

[Angelfeeties]

I like pie too

[Ghost Writer]

Don't play EQ2 , they dont deserve more money and the play system really is lame. Just like in eq 1 they want you to fucking group all the god damn time which really pisses me off. WoW is alot better.

[jookkor]

some cool games out for the ps2 ghost, maybe they would be more to your liking.

[Nadia]

EQ has become the Rolemaster of the MMOG world.

I like all 3 games (EQ/EQ2/WoW)

but thats a funny quote

[Riggen]

It's also a very accurate quote.

[SicTimMitchell]

One thing I'll say, Akhbar, is that EQ2 differs greatly in skill levels required to be good at combat from EQ1.

In EQ1, it's pretty much all about aggro management, from Wizards to Warriors to Enchanters, and that's about it.

In EQ2, you need to be able to improvise for the moment to maximize your combat efficiency. (This is especially true for Scout subclasses, who can alter an HO chain on the fly.) And I've said that any class in EQ2 playing at the top of their game twists more than a Bard in EQ1.

Of course, that's enough to put some people off the game right there.